andrewkjs wrote:I think this is the worst possible way of tackling the problem of having too many inexperienced AMs.

In Malaysia, the CM has only recently worked out an approval process for new AM applicants http://world.waze.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=279.

With this new restriction on overriding locks in an AM's area, this process is now redundant since everyone has to post an unlock request no matter what rank they are (and many roads here are frequently locked by editors not familiar with the area).

Not to mention that many higher level editors achieved their rank by editing aggressively outside their local areas, just by virtue of having gone for a cross country drive or requesting for a large AM area. And many of these edits had to be corrected anyway by a local AM who is more knowledgable of the area.

Poorly thought-out doesn't even begin to describe it. There are much better ways of dealing with the problem of inexperienced lvl 2 editors like, for example, perhaps by requiring the CM to evaluate and approve new AM requests.

Andrew, I think there is only three that have higher authority than Area Managers (level 2), which is myself, Ryan and Willy, so no 1 to 3 in Malaysia. For sure you're right that we're editing in much larger areas, especially me as a country manager trying to help where ever I can but we're also having the problem on the other side that AM's have unlocked highways which were totally ok and destroyed out good hard work!

I thought our new process would help but unless we're allowed to review all existing AM's (and I've counted so far way over 50 of them) and get the few bad apples out, we're fucked up either way.

Let's see how it turns out with the requests for unlocks coming in. We're all in the Facebook forum and requests have been attended to in usually a couple of hours.

Clearly a solution in between would have been better, like AM's allowing to overwrite locked roads by higher level only until a certain level, like Primary Roads, leaving the Highways/Freeways to higher level only (thus limiting the dramatic effect that some troll work has on routing, like again recently found turn restrictions on highways in Malaysia blocking even going straight on highways).

Andreas

cting76 wrote:Waze:
I am a level two area manager and I've been editing for more than a year. I've seen higher level editors, even though with hundreds of thousands more edits than I have, still making errors or locking up segments that still needed editing.
cting76

Chiencher,

as just posted right now, there are only three people in Malaysia ranked level 3 and higher. So instead of putting this up why don't you go directly into a dialogue with us three when you think we're making an error?

I hope you're aware that editing a single dot on the geometry of a road leaves that editors name on it. Not sure if solving a "General Error" update request with no info in it (which we get in the thousands BTW) is doing the same but having our name as the last editor doesn't necessarily means we've edited the whole stretch of a road, all connecting junctions and checked if everything is alright!

As only two of us have editing access in Ipoh where you're editing (Willy is owning South), can you discuss this in our Facebook forum with either myself or Ryan as you're obviously pointing finger at us?


Thanks,

Andreas

Hi, Im writing you from France. The street where I live needs some update editing on the map, but it was locked by another person. I need your advise, what to do?

NB: Im not a fresh user of Waze.

Regards.

If you're an AM or even a local editor and you are not working on URs from your local Wazers, you're missing a huge part of your "job" doing Waze map editing. It's likely that big cities are not able to be cared for properly by local AMs as there is, apparently, too many URs or they and other local editors are spending editing time elsewhere, trying to get points from changing direction and turn restrictions in small towns instead. I'd think these cities and metro areas would have plenty of AMs and other editors who could take care of user requests, but it's clear that these are not being done, which is why non-local country managers are in your areas and editing your roads.

Please don't get all hopped up and mad at a CM who changed the name of your misspelled street because a UR complained about it, but then they also didn't check every single turn restriction on the misspelled segments.

What I'd like to see, similar to what bgodette already wrote, is that if I am working on a UR in a place non-local to me, I would like to be able to keep the lock level at the previous editor rank for any object I update. If there is a wrong street name or a ramp which isn't named at all, but shows locked, I should be able to update the name without increasing the locking level. I believe this would help out a lot.

This is indeed a pain. And, just FYI, even CMs (level 4) can be locked out of editing stuff, too. Segments locked by admin(6). Need to change the primary name.

This highlights the problems most editors will experience segments inside their area manager area which are locked by a higher ranking editor. It is easy enough to get around for now, but soon we will not have the old editor to rely upon.

Ok, seriously Waze? You didn't fix the segment splitting bug workaround for locked segments? Because you ask for feedback and testing, but do not fix the issues we find, I have no qualms about letting the cat out of the bag on this. (May not work for everyone.)

EDIT: This bug was fixed prior to release. It is not possible to work around this in WME.

enfcer74 wrote:Also we kinda brought this on ourselves as a whole, Waze staff included. We have been encouraging people to become AM's but have not provided proper guidance. Yes, there is the wiki, and the forums, but little has been done to make sure they have a good grasp on editing, or what is even in the wiki to help them.

Many veteran editors do not actively encourage people to become AMs. Just the opposite, in fact.

enfcer74 wrote:

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:Many veteran editors do not actively encourage people to become AMs. Just the opposite, in fact.

No, we encourage them, that is the point I was trying to make. We just do not follow up to make sure they are editing properly or following up with them.

Maybe you do, but I certainly do not encourage people to become area managers.

FreeMan12 wrote:Frankly, the concept of a "country manager" in a country as large as the US seems quite silly. There's no reason AlanOfTheBerg* (from Oregon) should have any say over a map in Indiana or New York. He doesn't live there, may have never driven there, and his only reference may be to look at another on-line map, which is specifically against the rules, so I'm sure he doesn't. In some smaller countries, it may make sense, and even be practical.

It does make sense, though. If there are active AMs and other editors, there's no reason a city like New York should have URs which have been open since February. I often check in on other cities to see how the UR count looks and it is often very disappointing. I do often find many "turn not allowed" types of URs, for which it is quite clear, based on drive and route lines, which junction is at fault. I will often check streetview to see if there is a time-based restriction before making any changes. If that UR has been open for months and there are 20-30 at this same intersection, then clearly the local folks aren't doing their job and that's why I will step in and make changes. I am not going to spend time trying to figure out who the local folks are and PM them and they do it.

What this new permissions scheme likely means for me and other lvl3 or 4 folks is that we will need to be much more careful about ensuring segments are specifically unlocked as part of our process, unless it is high value roadway.

AndyPoms wrote:Where is this "CMs vetting AMs" coming from? I have seen NOTHING about it anywhere. Is it a UK only thing?

It is being done in other countries. I am not sure about the UK. The US is considering this move. It is something we've been considering for quite some time.

Another item which was brought up during the beta for this version was that the beta users are, by very nature, veteran editors. It is very hard for us to predict all the outcomes and complications encountered by all users. It is also difficult to just randomly invite new, low-level users to participate in the beta because they are fresh(er) editors and familiarity with process/procedure and guidelines make them (typically, not all!) poor testers. I specifically asked for new "testing" accounts which were lvl0 or lvl2 be created for us to use and so we could see the effect and issues related to permissions changes specifically, but that request was met with thundering silence from Waze.