Map Editor version (August 12, 2012) Official Feedback

[dmcconachie]

OK, maybe CMs are needed in parts with out AMs, BUT they should not be able to lock out those local AMs (especially those experienced level 3 AMs) who know the local roads and have more to gain in making their local maps better...

Debatable. Perhaps not but under that scenario CMs are going to be a lot more strict once they are responsible for AM vetting! AM areas will potentially become a lot smaller

[argus-cronos]

Thanks for having unlocked the first segment, I corrected it, but actually it's locked about everywhere arround. See for example https://world.waze.com/editor/?zoom=4&lat=45.73974&lon=-0.87033&layers=BFTFTTTFTTFTTTTFTTTTFT&segments=64770161

Sorry forgot a few im going forward with the most stupid locks/unlocks

I know that this is definitely not the way of editing. I suggest to talk with french Champs or experienced CMs about this. Even if i don't know who was locking the roads, somebody should have a talk with him.

And that's the point of such permission changes. Today or in the future works like this would not help an editor to gain AM or CM rights. This is what everybody should keep in mind during this frustrating phase.

[AlanOfTheBerg]

Frankly, the concept of a "country manager" in a country as large as the US seems quite silly. There's no reason AlanOfTheBerg* (from Oregon) should have any say over a map in Indiana or New York. He doesn't live there, may have never driven there, and his only reference may be to look at another on-line map, which is specifically against the rules, so I'm sure he doesn't. In some smaller countries, it may make sense, and even be practical.

It does make sense, though. If there are active AMs and other editors, there's no reason a city like New York should have URs which have been open since February. I often check in on other cities to see how the UR count looks and it is often very disappointing. I do often find many "turn not allowed" types of URs, for which it is quite clear, based on drive and route lines, which junction is at fault. I will often check streetview to see if there is a time-based restriction before making any changes. If that UR has been open for months and there are 20-30 at this same intersection, then clearly the local folks aren't doing their job and that's why I will step in and make changes. I am not going to spend time trying to figure out who the local folks are and PM them and they do it.

What this new permissions scheme likely means for me and other lvl3 or 4 folks is that we will need to be much more careful about ensuring segments are specifically unlocked as part of our process, unless it is high value roadway.

[skbun]

Frankly, the concept of a "country manager" in a country as large as the US seems quite silly... In some smaller countries, it may make sense, and even be practical.

In a country the size of the U.S., this logic even extends to AM areas at a low zoom. I'll explain...

I'm an AM of two general areas out in the middle of nowhere. One in Washington State, one in California. The reason I took on the task was to fix badly, badly broken highways within those areas that didn't allow navigation at all. The existing AM in both areas had massive area to cover, like, entire parts of states. (Names don't matter. That's not the point anyway.) Even better, in one example (and almost certainly the other), the highways would have been dealing with mountainous areas where a level 0 would undoubtedly have a break in 3G/4G communication travelling the road, so they wouldn't be able to edit the entire road later. This happened in Mount Rainier when I drove it. So in frustration, I said 'Screw this, I can help AM the area'.

To get those done, I requested about (7) 800 square mile areas through the AM request tool. That's 2/3rds the size of Israel right there.

Now, once I had the power to make changes, I made them. This often involved doing hundreds of highway miles I haven't traveled, at 10m zoom, getting the highway to some semblance of sanity, and continuity. I spent 4+ editing hours on a California state highway stretching 158 miles, to solve one user request saying 'I can't route from A to B'. As of the 7/25 map update, that stretch of road finally works. I've spent probably 16 or more editing hours on Mount Rainier's National Park roads.

I'd happily take mail into my mailbox that tell me when new URs come in inside the area for which I'm an AM, but that system doesn't exist. So all I can do is remember once in a while to scroll through the map system to look for things, often finding nothing. Inefficient, and not timely anyway. There are RSS feeds for states and municipalities, but AMs aren't granted permissions based on those; they're granted based on rectangular permalinks in WME. It means especially when you AM small out of the way areas, that the RSS feeds are useless to determine if you have the ability to make changes on any given UR.

If people don't want me to be an AM for these areas, I'd give back the permissions. I've done the work there I really wanted to do, and Waze doesn't have the tools to make ongoing maintenance efficient over large rural areas (based on AM permissons) anyway.

[porubcan]

maybe I'm not with Waze as long as other guys here... but this change in AM rights seems to be managed very badly. when I see Waze Champs complaining the change here in this topic, the first question in mind is "Do anyone evaluated the impact of this change properly prior implementing it? Why it was not discussed in larger forum (champs) first?"

I see the point of protecting map from vandalism, but for this purpose we have locks protecting map from inexperienced users, not from inexperienced AMs!!!. how would be AM inexperienced?

In Slovakia and Czech Republic AM rights should be given only to users with proven experience. and there is motivation for new user to prove the experience to obtain AM rights, so he/she will not be limited by locks in his AM area.
although the AM approval process was not followed by support in particular cases, so AM rights were given also to users which haven't met the criteria.

what would be the benefit from becoming an AM now? that you would not need to drive thru area you like to edit? but you would not be able to do basic edits when streets are locked by "old" higher-level-editor.

so now it would be much better to make AM cleanup like fotrik proposed here:

Ask community in every country (CM + old AMs) to:

1) Review new applications for AM rights via the country forum. Every new applicant would have to post his statistics (map edits, point, forum posts) and at least one permalink with an example of his work which represents his good work as much as possible. Then person like guri211 in SK or Zirland in CZ will accept and forward the application to Waze or refuse it. Directly or based on comments of other neighbor users.

2) Review work of all current AMs in country (list provided by Waze) in the same forum and revoke the AM right from all who don't pass.

Then the whole silly update you have done won't be necessary anymore.

In Slovakia we have maybe 4 guys with L3 and (roughly guessing) dozens of L2 AMs.
Those 4 L3 guys will become overloaded with unlock requests and L2 AMs will be frustrated (already discussed in local forum).

Maybe there is other option how to deal with new rules - we should consider different criteria for becoming L3 instead. 100k edits within small country is almost impossible (personally after 7+ months with waze and approx 29k of edits I can't see I would be able to get to 100k).
So then we might be able to distinguish between experienced AM, who will be promoted to L3 and less experienced one, who will be L2. but we would still need option to set Lock level to lower when locking/editing locked segment so higher level AMs will allow editing by lower level AMs...

I hope that you guys in Waze will learn a lesson from the way this change was implemented and next time you will evaluate changes with similar impact together with Waze Chanps.

[dmcconachie]

It was discussed by champs with and without waze. The problem wasn't the implementation so much as the lack of appreciation as to how many locks were in place. I'll say it again, the model is correct, it's suffering the effects of previous models. Talks are under way to remedy that though.

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[mrgrumpy]

Would it be possible to set the level the segments were locked at?
So a level 3 editor could set the lock at 3 or lower and a level 4 editor set the lock at 4 or lower?

That way freeways etc could be set to 4 but local roads could be 2 enabling lower ranked editors with better local knowledge can edit them when needed.

or even set the default lock to level 2, and only use a higher level lock when essential.

Just an idea..........

[porubcan]

It was discussed by champs with and without waze. The problem wasn't the implementation so much as the lack of appreciation as to how many locks were in place. I'll say it again, the model is correct, it's suffering the effects of previous models. Talks are under way to remedy that though.

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If this model should be correct:
- what would be benefit from becoming AM? will we change the way of granting AM rights?
- what would need to be done to prevent most experienced editors from being overloaded with unlock requests?
- will it be possible to set lock level for segment independently on AM rank level?

[dmcconachie]

The benefit is being able to edit in your area without the requirement to drive there once every 3 months.

Yes, the selection of AMs us being reviewed too. CMs will have more input to this process over time.

Didn't really understand question 3

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[WeeeZer14]

I think porubcan was talking about what mrgrumpy was also getting at -- being able to specify what level to lock a segment at. I am a level 4, so ideally when I lock I could pick to lock as a level 0, 1, 2, 3, or 4 depending on the situation.

If this is what you guys are talking about, then I had the exact same thought for "variable level locks" a while ago and most Champs support it and we hope the developers were listening when we told them we want it.

But we know they have their own vision for permissions, so they may think their new ideas will make a variable lock level unneeded.