Are all these at-grade connectors necessary?

[jasonh300]

Okay, for those very special situations, you can manipulate it to give the correct turn instructions.

https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=7&lat ... s=67706242

In this example, you'll get a keep left and then turn left.

This something that should not be done everywhere, and a ramp should never be used.

[wpegues]

"EDIT: Verified, as would be expected, there is no "turn" instruction given for any left or right turn at this intersection."

Perhaps there is something different about the ones you 'reviewed' since you don't provide which lanes you tested or which directions you were traveling from/to. You certainly did not test them all.

For this intersection specifically, if you are coming from North Village Road northbound on Wiehle to turn right onto north bound Reston Parkway, you are wrong.

You get a 'keep right' to move into the turn lane

This is followed by a 'Turn right at Reston Pkwy'.

That's right off the Waze Navigation List. I don't get the 1/10 mile alert on this because I set it up from my house which brings me onto Wiehle at North Village Road, only 334 feet from the 'keep left'.

And this is true for the entire test area I set up down Wiehle from Reston Avenue to Baron Cameron. And if you are coming from far enough away, you get an advance alert at 1/10 mile before the keep right.

Perhaps on the pathway that you tested there is something different about the way the roads are designated.

So, I tested coming along this same route, but turning left at Reston Parkway. Interestingly, the Waze navigation list gives the keep left, but you don't get the left turn instruction - just as you report.

Looking at these 2 turns I see nothing different in the way different designations that they have for any entry. But Waze returns different results for them.

[CBenson]

Looking at these 2 turns I see nothing different in the way different designations that they have for any entry. But Waze returns different results for them.

The difference is the exit angle from the connector. For the right turn the exit angle is greater than 45 degrees (close to 90 degrees) and you get the second turn instruction. For the left turn the connector is bent to make the exit angle less than 45 degrees, thus no turn left instruction where you exit the connector.

[nanobug]

I don't get the 1/10 mile alert on this because I set it up from my house which brings me onto Wiehle at North Village Road, only 334 feet from the 'keep left'.

The interesting thing is, were you to remove all the at-grade connectors, you would get "turn right/left" instructions at 1/10 mile from all directions given that all roads/segments coming to the Wiehle Ave & Reston Pkwy intersection are longer than 160 meters. These instructions would happen way before the solid lines start in all cases. Personally, I still think all these at-grade connectors are unnecessary. They are certainly not following the guidelines.

By the way, what's up with all the locking?

[nanobug]

Huh, is it me or was wpegues "demoted"? I now see "wpegues(0)" instead of "wpegues(2)"...

Anyway, I am getting ready to delete all those unnecessary at-grade connectors if no one (other than wpegues) objects.

[bz2012]

Let me make a case for putting in those turn lanes that some want to eliminate:

I was just discussing an intersection that has a 'white line' "left turn only" area that measures about 288 ft long (88m).

At 40 mph, a driver approaching the intersection has a warning at 1 mile, about 90 seconds from the intersection. That warning may or may not sink in. It is 'so far in the future' that they may forget about it or get distracted.'

The .1 mi warning is issued about 9 seconds from the intersection, but they are only about 4 seconds from the start of the white line!

At 70 mph, things are much worse. The 1 mile warning is issued about 51 seconds away from the intersection. The .1 mi warning is issued about 5 seconds from the intersection, but they are only about 2 seconds from the start of the white line!

We, as map editors, need to keep in mind the fact that it IS OUR JOB to make things easy for the drivers. That is the sole justification for WAZE existing and allowing us to edit the maps.

It is OUR JOB to make sure that they are in the correct lane in plenty of time to make the turns legally and safely.

Making the map 'look pretty and simple and easy to edit' IS NOT OUR JOB!

To paraphrase a saying "If the drivers aren't happy, then no one is happy."

[harling]

We, as map editors, need to keep in mind the fact that it IS OUR JOB to make things easy for the drivers. That is the sole justification for WAZE existing and allowing us to edit the maps.

It is OUR JOB to make sure that they are in the correct lane in plenty of time to make the turns legally and safely.

Making the map 'look pretty and simple and easy to edit' IS NOT OUR JOB!

I disagree that we need to hold the driver's hand when it comes to turn instructions--or that making the map more complicated in order to provide more explicit instructions makes it easier for the driver. If we consistently warn him of upcoming turns one mile, half a mile etc. beforehand, we have to trust that he knows to respond appropriately. Likewise, we expect him to know to keep to the proper side of the center island when making a turn, without having to split the end of every street that has a center island at the intersection.

If we start filling the map with ramps just to make extra sure that drivers get into the proper lane, it's going to make the map harder to follow visually, not to mention provide far more opportunities for the map to contain errors and actually give wrong directions.

[AlanOfTheBerg]

When we get the ability to do proper lane guidance without extra junction/segment machinations, that will be nice. Until such time, though, if there is a situation where Waze could give (or fail to give) guidance which puts the driver in a dangerous situation, I do believe that we need to make sure that it is less likely for that to happen. There have been more than one or two examples of that in recent threads.

[jasonh300]

At 40 mph, a driver approaching the intersection has a warning at 1 mile, about 90 seconds from the intersection. That warning may or may not sink in. It is 'so far in the future' that they may forget about it or get distracted.'

The .1 mi warning is issued about 9 seconds from the intersection, but they are only about 4 seconds from the start of the white line!

Now I see where you're coming from, however, there's an additional warning at (I believe) 1/2 mile. It would certainly be bad if they only gave one at 1 mile and at 1/10 mile.

[harling]

Now I see where you're coming from, however, there's an additional warning at (I believe) 1/2 mile. It would certainly be bad if they only gave one at 1 mile and at 1/10 mile.

I agree, if not for the earlier warning it would be too sudden. But the one-mile or half-mile (as determined by speed) announcement means that the driver already knows what to expect, so that the second announcement is no last-second surprise.