Time based turn restrictions

[harling]

At this point, I would advocate the simplest rule. Restricting the turn seems to me to be the simplest.

The Best Practices page still reads that these turns should be allowed. If there are no objections to changing it back, I will do so.

FWIW, the FAQ also makes a brief mention of how to handle time-based turn restrictions. Perhaps we should start linking from the FAQ to the relevant sections of the BP, for more detail and/or the reasoning behind it.

[harling]

I have updated the relevant section of the Best Practices document. I considered the template approach, but I don't know if we necessarily want the same wording in both the FAQ and BP documents; the goal of the FAQ is to give a quick definitive answer, while the BP is (supposed to be) more of a philosophical approach: the reasoning behind the answers in the FAQ, and guidelines for when editors need to use their discretion; i.e., when the FAQ cannot give a simple one-size-fits-all answer. (Whether that is still how the BP is being used is debatable, but that was its purpose when I did a major revision of it, must be over a year ago now.)

[jasonh300]

At this point, I would advocate the simplest rule. Restricting the turn seems to me to be the simplest.

The Best Practices page still reads that these turns should be allowed. If there are no objections to changing it back, I will do so.

FWIW, the FAQ also makes a brief mention of how to handle time-based turn restrictions. Perhaps we should start linking from the FAQ to the relevant sections of the BP, for more detail and/or the reasoning behind it.

I thought we had worded it so that if the turn is restricted the majority of the time (6 am to 7 pm), it should be marked restricted. And if the turn is only restricted for a couple of hours (8-9 am, 5-6 pm), it should be allowed.

Personally, I think they should be all restricted so that Waze never tells someone to make an illegal turn.

[kaeoboy]

The wiki post that I've been following for turn restrictions guidelines is:

http://www.waze.com/wiki/index.php/Best ... cted_Turns

Unfortunately, there are UR's filed during Giants games when turns into residential areas become restricted, saying "Turn not allowed".

[kaeoboy]

The bad part of the UR is that it only tells me the date of the UR and not the time. So I can't tell if the person reporting it is in commute hours or not.

Based on the WeeeZer14's parameters, I would rather have the turns enabled, as sometimes the nearest non-restricted turn is several blocks ahead or in my case right turn - right turn - right turn and play avoid pedestrian dodge ball. Which in either case, with San Francisco drive time, can be 10-15 mins of a drive delay.

If the consensus is to disable the turn, there are so many in SF, that, I would just leave them alone until a UR report comes in and fix as needed, based on the guidelines.

[kentsmith9]

That entry was originally worded to "err on the side of caution and disallow the turn". On August 31 user Jhfrontz changed it to "allow" with the justification that the cautious information would be to allow.

Here is the original text:

Code: Select all

Waze currently has no provision for handling this type of restriction, although it is planned for the future.  In a situation where a turn is illegal during certain times of the day (e.g. No Left Turn, 7-10 am, 3-7 pm, Weekdays), it's best to err on the side of caution and disallow the turn.  This way, nobody will ever be instructed to make an illegal turn.

Here is what Jhfronz put in:

Code: Select all

Waze currently has no provision for handling this type of restriction, although it is planned for the future.  In a situation where a turn is illegal during certain times of the day (e.g. No Left Turn, 7-10 am, 3-7 pm, Weekdays), it's generally best to err on the side of caution and allow the turn.  This way, waze will always give an optimal route and the driver can decide (based on local conditions) whether or not to use it.

This change was noticed in October and Jhfronz responded for the motivation in this thread. It appears there was no resolution as to how to update the wording to recognize the group consensus.

I for one was confused by the word that to "err on the side of caution would allow the turn."

There are now two questions in my mind:

1. Does the group generally agree with the philosophy of the statement that Waze should give the best route and let the user decide if it is legal?

2. Is the specific wording "to err on the side of caution is to sometimes recommend an illegal turn"?

[kentsmith9]

{I separated my response from my post above to not confuse the question.}

On #1, I understand most Waze users are commuters. As commuters they are generally on the road in the mornings and evenings. If turn restrictions are set to control and prevent commuters from using certain roads during their commute, then we should consider having Waze "restrict" the turn for the majority of the traffic. Having the route enabled for the majority of most users that cannot take the route does not make sense to me.

If that particular turn is for another reason not based on commuter traffic or it is a very short period of time, I would say to allow the turn. Either way I recommend the editor will need to decide, but I think we should give some kind of guidelines.

San Francisco is full of hundreds of URs mostly made up of complaints that turns are not possible (time based) when Waze recommends them. For the time-based turns set to disallow always, during the times those turns are are not allowed the URs pop up that the wrong driving direction was given. Either way SF is screwed for proper navigation without a Waze solution for this problem.

For #2 I disagree with the wording "to err on the side of caution". If we keep this basic recommendation to always allow the turn, then I propose we not use those particular words. If we all get to that point I can certainly make some proposals based on the final desire for this "best practice" recommendation.

[kentsmith9]

Whatever we do we can create a template with the instructions on a single page.

Go to this Wiki page on Your Rank and Points. Inside when you edit the page you will find a template entry "{{Points collecting}}". The entry {{TEMPLATE}} enables a single page to have a single description, images, headings, etc. that can be embedded into other pages as necessary with only a single source page to update. Saves a bunch of time and ensures 100% consistency. We just need to limit the details of the template to what is common to all places it would be used and then deviations on the topic/entry would be added before or after the template inline on the final page showing the template.

The template can be found under Template:Points collecting.

If someone wants to go to the Wiki and enter "Template:Time-based Turn Details" (or something like that) in the search box you will see a red link at the top of the page. Hit that red link and you will create the template. Just enter the text as if you are on a regular page, but generally you don't have headings on a template to prevent problems with the template is used in different heading levels. Then on the pages that talk about turn restrictions just add {{Time-based Turn Details}} in the body of the page you are updating.

[Mike-1323]

The lack of time-based restrictions on both turns and direction, as well as the lack of HOV support make Waze much less useful around here. The DC area is full of such restrictions and failing to recognize them mean that Waze can't be trusted to route through certain areas.

[shawndoc]

So I think there's room for improvement. This approach is black-and-white whereas some amount of discretion could be used. jhfronz's example points out a short-term restriction which, in that case, perhaps makes sense. However, if a more nuanced approach were taken say, given certain conditions then it might avoid confusion (and also make Waze more useful, rather than less, in those situations). For instance, what if the recommendation were to allow the turn if the restriction were:

• not during rush hour (defining rush hour being slightly fuzzy, but based on the area and the volume of traffic - assumes the editor knows the area well)
• not more than 4 hours long (for example)
• not cumulatively more than 12 hours of the day
• not a turn on a single-lane road (just spitballing now)

I'm simplify it to the following:
- Disallow the turn if most drivers are likely to encounter the turn while it is restricted