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True purpose of Parking Lots

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Can an expert with an OFFICIAL stance (not looking for random opinions) please respond to the following about these cursed things:

When EXACTLY should the Parking Lot *landmark* be created? I fully understand Parking Lot roads and when they should/should not be used. I am speaking solely about the landmark.

For example, when there is a large mall, why not just blanket that entire area with the Shopping Center landmark? That would allow for a much simpler shape for Waze. I'm asking because I keep running into crazy complex/hideous parking lots that wrap all the way around malls, etc. I really don't feel as if the user needs to know "this is a parking lot," but instead "this is Whatever Mills Mall."

If there is some underlying framework purpose for having parking lots specifically, please link or explain so I can know what course of action I should be taking when I find these.

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Post by AlanOfTheBerg
DonJ2 wrote:Jason, regarding the NOTE in the above quoted text from 1.8, it says parking lots suppress traffic jams? I thought in your previous post you said they do not, but this wiki update says they do?
Information changes all the time. I believe we just got some kind of confirmation of this last weekend. The wiki doesn't get updated as quickly as the info comes out in the forum, but it could/should.
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Post by AlanOfTheBerg
gohamstergo wrote:alrighty, ive read all the responses. it makes sense now. ill create my landmarks up to the edge of the road without snapping them to it. just wish turning off the roads layer got rid of snapping as well. thanks all
FYI, we've repeatedly asked that the editor not snap landmark drawing, nor snap road geometry nodes, except the end ones.
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Post by cbwierda
Based on this discussion, since I am new and the standard is under review, should I refarin from creating any Parking Lots until y'all release the new criteria?

I created a couple to resolve Map Issues that appear to be from Wazers stopping for drive through.
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Post by Chris_CA
gohamstergo wrote:
jasonh300 wrote:It's still considered sloppy editing to snap any landmark to a road
Really? I mean, editor-wise, it looks better to have landmarks created exactly on their intended targets. But in the client, (which is what I think really matters) it looks a lot better to have a landmark (that has a very small setback from the road) border end under the road, as opposed to having a 2-3 pixel color difference between the road and the landmark. Just looks weird. The client's roads are so "fat," that places with the aforementioned small setbacks have that strange gap. Which is is why I've been snapping to the roads, to prevent this
The snap is to the "center" of the road, not the edge. and the landmark usually doesn't go to the center of the road.
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Post by Daknife
skapur1 wrote:A more forceful argument on WHY something should or should not be there would be better (and added map clutter is not a good argument as that is a client app design issue, not an amount of data issue).
Anyone who makes this argument hasn't seen an area in the client where so much is land marked that everything is land marked. It turns into a large blob of landmark tinting with landmark names floating seemingly at random in the blob. Those names can block out street names and other critical info needed by a driver.

This has been hashed out multiple times on threads much longer than this one. I've been very vocal in some of those threads about the need to limit landmarks so they are just that, landmarks, points of significance, not unpaid advertisements for every business on the map. Some landmarks are needed in the map to give reference points but you get too many and they become worthless clutter that only serves to push up the amount of data that must be transmitted.

You said the list previously linked has little to no justification, go look for some of the previous threads on landmarks where every single landmark type is addressed, breaking down the need, the relevance and the usefulness of the landmark. The list when finally finalized will be greatly welcomed, but Waze could help us even more by greatly trimming the number of landmark types select able.

And we all have to step back occasionally and accept it when Waze changes their mind on something, such as the pending change in parking lot road rules. I'm not a big fan of mapping every lane of every parking lot, dimming the roads will help but I still think it's excessive and needless even if Google has gone and done it to their maps (or allowed user editors to do it). But when the Champs or a Waze staffer says that we will be mapping everything, then so be it and everything will get mapped. (I hope not but I'm betting it's gonna happen cause Ehud wants it.)
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Post by doctorkb
Jason: can I suggest that Parking Lot landmarks also be recommended for places where parking is required, but hard to find? One specific example is a typical University campus...
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Post by doctorkb
jasonh300 wrote:
doctorkb wrote:Jason: can I suggest that Parking Lot landmarks also be recommended for places where parking is required, but hard to find? One specific example is a typical University campus...
The best thing you can do with those is enter them into foursquare. Then a [P] pin will show on the map when it's near your destination and can be used with the integrated parking feature.


Via my iPhone 3GS.
They are already in waze, and behave like that. I've never had good luck with Waze mapping data points from other sources, so why should we move off waze infrastructure?
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Post by doctorkb
jasonh300 wrote:
doctorkb wrote:
jasonh300 wrote:
The best thing you can do with those is enter them into foursquare. Then a [P] pin will show on the map when it's near your destination and can be used with the integrated parking feature.
They are already in waze, and behave like that. I've never had good luck with Waze mapping data points from other sources, so why should we move off waze infrastructure?
Because that's how the Waze parking feature is designed to operate. The only place it gets that parking data from is foursquare.
No, actually, it's not.

I added them to the Waze map and they showed up.

The parking indicators pop up if my destination in Nav is near them.

No matter how much you want to tell me that waze's sources for geo data are good, I can promise you that I've not had a single successful search, whether by a location name or address.

In Canada, we simply cannot rely on Waze's data partners... Because they suck big time.
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Last edited by doctorkb on Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

Post by doctorkb
jasonh300 wrote:
doctorkb wrote: No, actually, it's not.

I added them to the Waze map and they showed up.

The parking indicators pop up if my destination in Nav is near them.
No, actually, you didn't. There's nothing you can do in the editor that will make a parking lot indicator pop up in the client. You may think you did, however, the only place that data comes from is Foursquare in the U.S. and Canada. I got confirmation from the developers early this morning on this.
You're not giving me much confidence in the developers...

I just checked FourSquare. There is no record for a search for "Parking" near 14000 82 Ave NW, Edmonton, AB, Canada.

In Waze, however, I added several carparks at the UofA North Campus that are right there, and I see the little [P] pin pop up for them every day.

If you have another answer for this, I'd love to hear it...
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Post by doctorkb
Well golly, gee. I'll be darned.

I searched for "Parking" near the campus the 4sq app and the nearest result was a skating rink a fair distance away.

(And sorry, the address should have read 11400 -- if you look in WME, there are a bunch of lots around the campus... now searching again, I get the Windsor lot, but not Jubilee or any of the rest. Perhaps this just goes to the inconsistency in the geo data providers.)

Why can't Waze just use the features that are built in to the editing interface? If we have the ability to add a parking lot landmark, should it not show up in the client as such? And if we add a specific landmark, shouldn't we be able to search for it as a destination?

If we're not going to have that ability, then perhaps it should be make a little more clear that Waze values the Waze data less than what it can find elsewhere...
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