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Roads auto-fixing (geometry, directionality, ...)

Post by
Somewhere (wiki? FAQ? doesn't matter now) it's said, that Waze will fix the roads based on other users (statistically). The geometry thing is pretty cool, but the directionality thing is pretty screwed up right now. I've fixed some roads just 2 days ago in the Cartouche and today I've found that some segmnts were converted to two-way (from one-way), some had the directionality reversed... (two examples marked in this view) I think it's safe to assume that this changes are an effect of ONE merging process. Now - here in Poland we have so little Wazers, that I can bet that a totally insignificant number of people used that road on this day (5?). Now, my fix two days ago was to align the roads with GPS tracks so they are pretty accurate, so how many of these small number of people would have left WRONG tracks? Now, the directionality was changed only on ONE direction, so this very-small number of people has to be divided by two (let's assume that an equal number of people travel in both directions). These were not my tracks, as I drove in the "right" direction. To be honest I'm not sure anyone drove that road on this period... "Somewhere" it was said that Waze tries to be conservative about such changes, and numbers like 100 users are given.

So what's the problem here? If you check countries with developed Waze maps (let that be Slovakia - example [segments of freeway]) you notice that almost ALL roads are locked. This is to prevent Waze's algorithms from screwing people's work. Now these features make perfect sense and the idea behind them is good, but in reality - as I've tried to prove - they don't help at all, and people have to take additional measures to prevent them from working. You can even check the discussions on the forum where people are advising other users to tick "Locked" after EVERY edit.

Waze team - either disable those algorithms at all, or fix them (for example by really adding some HIGH threshold, because obviously now there is none...).

I hope that developers or support are reading this forum, if someone thinks otherwise tell me - I'll send a link to this thread via e-mail.

4\/3!!

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Re: Roads auto-fixing (geometry, directionality, ...)

Post by AlanOfTheBerg
unwallflower wrote:Until we have better GPS in our phones this sort of thing is going to happen. I don't think it is Waze's fault, it is the fault of cheap GPS recording poorly placed tracks.
For roads that I record with my iPhone 4, I have had pretty good and consistent results with the GPS. Consistent meaning that when I go back over the same location multiple times on a road which is fairly new and had no GPS tracks until I came along, the arrows line up within 4-6 feet of each other. I would think if the GPS hardware was flaky or unreliable that the distance and location of the track would shift more wildly than that.

Now, when recording roads, I also tend to 1) Not do it on a very overcast, foggy or rainy day, and 2) I put the phone way up into the dashboard area of the car so as to maximize reception. Doing so affords pretty decent accuracy, IMO. I have a feeling that when I find GPS tracks and new roads 20-30m away from the road and other tracks, that either these are really bad GPS units, or the reception was poor, or number of satellites acquired was minimal.

I think our phones can do a decent job, but the conditions must be ideal for them to function accurately.
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Re: Roads auto-fixing (geometry, directionality, ...)

Post by AlanOfTheBerg
unwallflower wrote:Poorly recorded GPS tracks are going to happen. This is why we have to lock these sort of one-way roads, so the poorly recorded GPS tracks don't alter the directionality.

Like I said... the Waze auto-correcting feature is only as good as the data it has to work with. If the GPS tracks it receives say that people are driving in both directions on the same segment of road... well, that's what it has to go on.
We agree.
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Re: Roads auto-fixing (geometry, directionality, ...)

Post by AlanOfTheBerg
Not sure I agree with an edited segment being removed from consideration for geometry adjustment based on GPS points. Just because I adjust the location of an intersection for a road doesn't mean that the rest of the road should be exempted from adjustments. There are plenty of roads which do not have a node for 1-2 miles winding through forest or desert or farmland. Requiring only manual adjustments to those miles of roadway because a node at one end was moved is not what I was hoping for.

Then again, this should only be a temporary situation while the algorithms get tweaked.
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Re: Roads auto-fixing (geometry, directionality, ...)

Post by CBenson
rl_pl wrote:The marked segment is not two-way by mistake or on purpose. It used to be one-way but has been converted by the system automatically. This happens very often and we have to fix the roads but the system changes them anyway.
I have seen this quite a bit too and argee that the automatic updating should be better. That being said, can someone explain the updating process? Does changing the one way designation to two way really do anything? I have never been routed down a one way road that has been converted automatically by waze to two way. The conectivity seems to remain as a one way road.

http://world.waze.com/livemap/?zoom=9&l ... =100972446

If the routing doesn't change, what's the point of designating the road as two way?
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Re: Roads auto-fixing (geometry, directionality, ...)

Post by CBenson
rl_pl wrote: I have never seen a two-way road which waze (not human!) has converted to one-way while it should not. Have you?
Yes, I have.
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Re: Roads auto-fixing (geometry, directionality, ...)

Post by dmcconachie
You should be sure of directionality AND comfortable with the geometry before locking! But yes, so do I! It's a good habit to get into!
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Re: Roads auto-fixing (geometry, directionality, ...)

Post by dmcconachie
I'm not trying to say you're experience is wrong, I think you should email support@waze.com with details as it's way more sensitive than I've experienced!

Remember too that there are dual modes at work here too. The system is designed to gradually built roads and connectivity itself. By getting into cartouche we can drastically speed this process up but it will inevitably cause clashes with the server! hence the locking option!

Having said that it would agree there are flaws to be worked on for the auto-correction! This is where emails to support can be helpful!

I would also definitely agree there should be separate locks for directionality and geometry! There may well be a uservoice suggestion to that effect, unfortunately I can't search from here!
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Re: Roads auto-fixing (geometry, directionality, ...)

Post by dmcconachie
Thanks!
I think our thoughts are actually quite alligned for the most part! Send to find myself inadvertently sodding when I read your replies! :)
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Re: Roads auto-fixing (geometry, directionality, ...)

Post by dmcconachie
freddiechopin wrote:The algorithm is obviously wrong to change the directionality!
You could well be right and as I said before you should send this to support to let them investigate - the app is an ever-evolving work-in-progress for them as much as cartouche is for us!
freddiechopin wrote:Still I think that tracks should not be locked, the algorithm should be fixed.
I'm afraid you are very much in the minority on this one! You just can't account in any algorithm for the vast spectrum of GPS unit qualities, weather conditions, etc etc. Too many people seem to think that just because they have the latest handset that the GPS is therefore pin-point accurate!
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Re: Roads auto-fixing (geometry, directionality, ...)

Post by dmcconachie
GPS tracks don't last forever on cartouche!
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