Consistency in SA

[Chriseleven]

I see there are numerous variables in how roads are designated. There are roads that change from freeways to major highways and back, some town the minor highways change to primary streets and in some towns they stay as minor highways all the way through. N roads are normally shown as freeways where in some places they are single lane roads

Do we agree with the description as in http://www.waze.com/wiki/index.php/South_Africa ? If not - should we not fix it?

[RodNav]

I'm glad you've started this discussion, as I've been puzzling over it myself.

I would think that Freeway should only be used for true Freeways as defined here in SA. That is, access to and from the freeway is by on-ramps and off-ramps only - no intersections as such. Also, being a dual carriageway would seem to be a requirement.

Of course, this would mean that many of the 'N' roads between cities should actually be Major highways, not Freeways as they are at the moment.

I've been using Primary Streets inside of towns for the main route through the town. However, re-reading the wiki, I think Minor Highway is actually more appropriate.

Before changing Freeways to Major Highways and Primary Streets to Minor Highways I'll wait to see what the feeling of other SA wazers is - if they post here!

So, to sum up:

Freeway type only when It's truly a freeway as described above.
All other 'N' roads between towns should be Major Highways, or Minor Highways if there are many stop streets / traffic lights. This description leaves a lot to interpretation, so suggestions welcome!
When a Major Highway passes thru a town it should probably become a Minor Highway if there several intersections.

Hopefully others will chip in with their ideas.

[Chriseleven]

This is deja-vu

About 5 years ago this exact discussion happened with the contributors to openstreetmap. Have a look at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sout ... Guidelines where the final conclusions are. Openstreetmap has more classifications of roads than Waze


My take - Freeway means access via on and offramps. Might be dual carriageway. eg Platinum highway
Major Highway are the N roads
Minor highways are the R roads and can be tar or gravel (Waze is set up for the first world)

[mohag]

Legally (when it comes to assumed speedlimits, etc) there seem to be two classes of freeway...

Class A-1: Dual carriagwaw

Class A-2: Single carrigewawy

They seem to mainy be indicated by signs. Relevant signs include:

GLS-4, GLS-5, GDS-4, GDS-5 (in this pdf: http://www.arrivealive.co.za/downloads/ ... rt%203.pdf ) (THese seem to be images used on larger signs, such as direction / name signs)

R401, R402 in this PDF: http://www.arrivealive.co.za/downloads/ ... rt%201.pdf

http://www.arrivealive.co.za/downloads/ ... rt%205.pdf has the sign names.

[Glipsie]

See here:
viewtopic.php?f=141&t=3466&start=10#p26947 as well as the entire forum topic discussion.

How would you propose classifying the N2 (see Ermelo -> Pongola -> Durban)?

The road is difficult because it has parts that are:
1. dual carriageway with medium and ramps
2. Dual carriageway with no medium (solid white line) and ramps
3. Single lane either way with solid white line and ramps
4. Single + dual carriageway with crossroads (stop street for the joining roads).

[Chriseleven]

https://world.waze.com/editor/?zoom=5&l ... TTTTTTTTFT

What about this one - Here the R512 changes from a Primary Street to a Minor Highway. Would major highway not be appropriate for both?

I note Major Highway is not used much in the Jhb area

[Glipsie]

Ok, my initial post was a rushed response after reading the general direction of this topic. I didn't want people to get into making decisions about road renaming before reading the work that had already been done (please note, I was not part of the original discussion). Please take this road into consideration when making decisions based on the number of lanes a road may have.

Heres the post:

Here are examples of what I talk about:
I'm linking google maps as bing (waze) was missing the area not too long ago!
N2 Hluhuwe offramp, Dual lanes, solid white line (no medium) + on/offramps
https://maps.google.com/?ll=-28.011168, ... 6&t=h&z=16

10ish km up the road, you have single lane, solid white middle line and two dirt roads intersecting:
https://maps.google.com/?ll=-27.885347, ... 1&t=w&z=19

Follow this road all the way to Ermelo and you will see it change from the above, to the highways in and around Jhb (3 lanes, solid barriers + ramps).

This road is a freeway, and should not be changed, so we need to be careful when defining roads by how many lanes they have.

*edit: wrong link*

[Glipsie]

Right, so heres how the R512 (Malibongwe) was mapped:

The first time I drove this road, it did note exist. It was only mapped until Witkoppen. After that, it was a strew of "red" roads. Malibongwe itself, was mapped as a primary road, so I extended this to the city limits. I believe where the R512 becomes a "Minor Highway" is where it loses its "city name" (signboards will read R512 instead of Malibongwe Dr (R512), hence I decided to go with the convention and change the road to a Minor Highway.

This road and Heidelberg road have always bugged me, as by the definition they should be mapped as Minor Highways. I've always had in the back of my mind though, that there are just too many robots on the road for it to be considered a "Major Highway". Another reason was also that on the old client (~v2), roads were a lot bigger, so if there were many roads (other than ramps) connected to a major/minor highway, it would not be immediately evident what was going on (e.g. the intersection with Republic). They have since fixed this by adding an auto zoom and reducing the size of the roads that are displayed on the client (though I think they could probably still do more).

I also don't like the idea of freeways continuing through towns (unless it actually remains a freeway!). I don't consider a road with a four-way stop or traffic light to be a freeway. I consider the freeway to "end" just before entering the city, and then a new freeway starting on the other side (even though the road may be called the same name). This looks weird when you zoom out a lot (like theres a piece missing) but I don't think this should be of concern.

Major Highways are underused, and I think the definition could use some work. Not sure where to use it though ...

Thoughts/suggestions/critique all welcome

/Glipsie

[Chriseleven]

I think the road type need not "look nice" on the map but should be telling the Waze user which road is better that the alternate.
My view is that we should use Freeway for all the proper designated freeways, eg the M1, etc as well as the National roads between the major cities. I agree that the freeway, highway, etc stops when you enter a town and should change to a primary street (unless of course it is still a freeway)

Major highways should be multi lane highways/well constructed, wide highways between cities/towns that are not designated as freeways. I would like these to be differentiated from minor highways that could vary from reasonable roads to ones where you might need to drive very slowly due to road condition.

Minor highways could even include good well maintained gravel roads but lets not go there.

[Glipsie]

I think the road type need not "look nice" on the map but should be telling the Waze user which road is better that the alternate.

"Looks nice" seems like the wrong wording. You need to be able to distinguish roads so that you can make the correct turn.
Here is Heidelberg that I referred to:
https://world.waze.com/editor/?zoom=5&l ... TTTFTTTTFT
I haven't checked with v3 of the client, but with v2, setting Heidelberg Rd to "Minor Highway" made it cover the ramp to the side of it completely, so it was difficult to work out if you needed to "keep left to Harrow Rd" or "keep left to the ramp to the N1". These instructions are easy to follow if you know where you're going, but not if you're not. You therefore need the visual instruction to see which road to take.

I'm pointing this out as "something to take note of". Things have changed significantly since so I don't know if my concerns are still valid!

Major highways should be multi lane highways/well constructed, wide highways between cities/towns that are not designated as freeways. I would like these to be differentiated from minor highways that could vary from reasonable roads to ones where you might need to drive very slowly due to road condition.

Are you referring to R roads such as the one you pointed out (R512)? If not, can you narrow it down to a certain road type (see the thread I pointed to earlier if you're not sure what I mean). I feel the way to go is to define roads based on their SA names, rather (Rxxx, Rxx, Mxx, Mx, Nx) rather than "does the road have 2 lanes". Can you also show an example of what you believe a "Minor Highway" should be?

/Glipsie


/Glipsie