Thailand Wazer

[leoviotti]

Hello guys, I'm driving around Thailand and editing maps, but I do not read or speak Thai.

I know there are some guidelines we should follow on the Wiki, and it makes no sense to me why a major street in the city should use "Minor Highway". I do understand Thailand has a different way to operate, but again, the map should be friendly and understandable to ALL, including visitors, and the way things are being done, if anyone who doesn't *REALLY* know the country and traffic around here, all the maps will be absolutely useless.

We are a small, very small actually, group of users. Let's try to stick to the GLOBAL guidelines, presented here?
http://www.waze.com/wiki/index.php/Best ... g_practice

For example, the user "benzin" suggested that we cannot name the elevated tollways as "Freeways", since they are not free. He does not know that Freeways refers to free traffic, with no intersection and few areas that create bottlenecks. That is the essense of a freeway, and not the "free to use" kind of "free".

I do hope we can all make the maps better, always. I am working on them as much as I can, I just enjoy mapping, it's like a therapy, and well, Thailand maps are mega=messy at best, do we have to do our best to make them good!

[leoviotti]

I do have a few suggestions regarding STREET NAMES though... for example, there are many parts of Sukhumvit Rd. named "Sukhumwit Rd.". Even though SukhumWit reflects more precisely the pronunciation of the name in Thai, that's not what we have on the plaques and other navigation devices. My main suggestion is, as the MAIN name, let's use the "common used" names in English (or even in Thai, when I figure out how to add alternate names in the new Editor interface).

Same goes for Petchaburi Rd. (sometimes refered as Petburi), Ratchadaphisek (sometimes writen Ratchada Phisek), and many others. I am slowly "correcting" the translitteration to what we found on the plaques, so it all makes sense to everyone, and not only the ones who know the area (if you know the area, you don't need the map, right? )

[argus-cronos]

Great, the maps getting better here

when I figure out how to add alternate names in the new Editor interface).

Is not implemented yet. And there were also some issues in cartouche with selecting mutiple roads and alt street. A few weeks ago.

I do have a few suggestions regarding STREET NAMES though... for example, there are many parts of Sukhumvit Rd.
named "Sukhumwit Rd.". Even though SukhumWit reflects more precisely the pronunciation of the name in Thai, that's
not what we have on the plaques and other navigation devices. My main suggestion is, as the MAIN name, let's use the
"common used" names in English (or even in Thai, when I figure out how to add alternate names in the new Editor
interface). Same goes for Petchaburi Rd. (sometimes refered as Petburi), Ratchadaphisek (sometimes writen Ratchada Phisek), and
many others. I am slowly "correcting" the translitteration to what we found on the plaques, so it all makes sense to everyone, and not only the ones who know the area (if you know the area, you don't need the map, right?

I totally agree with this. But sometimes on the plaques it's quite a mess too.
If you come from Chonburi Motorway number 7 direction BKK there is an exit to Kanchanaphisek number 9 and on the plaque there it is written "Sri Nagarindra in the City you found "Srinagarindra" and this happens a few times around Bangkok with different Names.

[schanon]

สวัสดีครับชาว Waze ทุกท่าน

นามแฝงของผมใน Waze คือ schanon ยินดีที่ได้รู้จักทุกท่านนะครับ (ใช้ Waze บน iPhome ครับ) หากเจอกันบนท้องถนนก็ Ping มาหาได้ครับ โดยปกติแล้วผมจะวนเวียนอยู่ในแถบกรุงเทพมหานครนี้ แต่มีบ้านที่ปราจีนบุรีด้วยเลยไปกลับ กรุงเทพ-ปราจีนบุรี บ่อยๆ ซึ่งตอนนี้ได้เป็น Area Manager ของ จ.ปราจีนบุรี อยู่ 2 อำเภอด้วยกัน คือ อ.เมือง และ อ.ศรีมหาโพธิ (บางส่วน) หากใครต้องการให้ เคลื่อน ลบ เปลี่ยนชื่อ หรือจัดการถนน สามารถแจ้งมาได้นะครับ ตอนนี้กำลังสร้างเมืองปราจีนบุรีอยู่ โดยพยายามสร้างถนนเส้นหลักไว้ก่อนครับ

ผมเห็นด้วยเรื่องการตั้งมาตรฐานการตั้งชื่อและประเภทของถนน จึงขออนุญาตแสดงความคิดเห็นและนำเสนอรูปแบบคร่าวๆ โดยการอ้างอิงจาก Waze Wiki ผมขอเสนอให้มีการตั้งชื่อและประเภทของถนน เป็นดังนี้ครับ
http://www.waze.com/wiki/index.php/How_ ... name_roads

Freeway ใช้สำหรับ
- ทางหลวงแผ่นดินเลขหลักเดียว เช่น พหลโยธิน (1), เพชรเกษม (4) หรือ ทางหลวงแผ่นดินหมายเลข 7 (มอเตอร์เวย์)
- ทางหลวงแผ่นดินหมายเลขสองหลักหรือทางพิเศษระหว่างเมือง เช่น ทางหลวงแผ่นดินหมายเลข 11 (อินทร์บุรี-เชียงใหม่) หรือทางหลวงแผ่นดินหมายเลข 36 (กะทิงลาย-ปลวกเกตุ) หรือถนนบายพาสพัทยา-ระยอง
- ทางด่วน, ทางยกระดับ เช่น ทางด่วนเฉลิมมหานคร ทางด่วนบูรพาวิถี

ตรงนี้ค่อนข้างเห็นต่างจากคุณ benzin สักเล็กน้อยครับ เรื่องที่ว่าทางด่วนไม่ควรใช้คำว่า Free Way ผมคิดว่าทางด่วนควรใช้คำว่า Free Way เพราะตามคำนิยามของ Waze Wiki ได้รวมทางด่วน (expressways) ไว้ในหมวด Free Way ด้วย

คำว่า Free Way อาจจะไม่ได้มีความจำเป็นจะต้องฟรีก็ได้แต่หมายถึงทางหลวงหลัก ซึ่งในประเทศไทยเราแบ่งความสำคัญของทางหลวงตามหมายเลขโดยบ่งชี้ที่จำนวนของหลักเลข ในที่นี้ทางหลวงที่สำคัญที่สุดคือทางหลวงแผ่นดินที่มีเลขหลักเดียว ผมจึงเห็นสมควรว่าเราควรให้ทางหลวงแผ่นดินที่มีเลขหลักเดียวและสองหลักใช้ประเภทถนนเป็น Free Way ได้

Freeway
These are interstates (such as I-90), highways, freeways and expressways that are multi-lane, divided roads with no stops (no traffic lights, exit and entrance from/to the road is through ramps)

Major Highway ใช้สำหรับ
- ทางหลวงแผ่นดินรหัสเลข 3 หลัก

Minor Highways
- ทางหลวงแผ่นดินรหัสเลข 4 หลัก

Ramps
- สะพาน

Primary Street
- ถนนหลัก เช่น ถนนจันทร์ ถนนเจริญนคร ถนนพระรามที่ 3 หรือ ถนนเทศบาลดำริ ใน จ.หวัดปราจีนบุรี ที่เป็นถนนเส้นหลักของ อ.เมือง

Street
- ตรอก ซอย ทั้งมีชื่อและไม่มีชื่อ และถนนที่ไม่ใช่ถนนหลัก เช่น ซอยพหลโยธิน 43 หรือถนนขนาดเล็กในต่างจังหวัด เช่น ถนนเทศบาล 5 เป็นต้น

หมายเหตุ
- ถ้าทางหลวงแผ่นดินเส้นใดมีชื่อเรียกอย่างอื่นนอกจากเลขรหัสด้วย เช่น ทางหลวงแผ่นดินหมายเบลข 304 ในแต่ละช่วงมีชื่อเรียกต่างกันถึง 3 ชื่อ ได้แก่ สุวินทวงศ์ รามอินทรา และแจ้งวัฒนะ ให้ใส่ชื่อถนนแล้ววงเล็บด้วยรหัสถนน เช่น Suwinthawong (304) , Raminthra (304) หรือทางหลวงแผ่นดินหมายเลข 320 ช่วงที่ผ่าน อ.เมืองปราจีนบุรีจะมีชื่อว่า ถนนราษฏรดำริ ก็ให้ใส่เป็น Ratdamri (320) โดยที่จุดเริ่มต้นและจุดสิ้นสุดของช่วงถนนที่ใช้ชื่อใดๆ อยู่ตรงไหนให้อ้างอิงจาก Google Maps เป็นต้น

ขอบคุณครับ

ปล. ตามที่คุณ argus-cronos เคยแนะนำว่าควรเขียนเป็นภาษาอังกฤษด้วย เพราะ Area Manager หล่ายท่านไม่ใช่คนไทย คงต้องรบกวนผู้ที่มีความสันทักเรื่องภาษาช่วยแล้วหละครับ แหะๆ

[argus-cronos]

Moved this thread to the Thailand forum.

Thanks gerben

[echooo]

Greeting all wazers in Thailand,

The forum is very quiet in contrast to my belief that wazer base here is growing fast because I see new users on the map everyday.

I am Thai and I am curious whether we reach any agreement on how to supplement street name in Thai. English is an accepted universal language but we are in Thailand where majority of wazers are Thai.

What is your thought? Can we edit "alt. name" in the new map editor?

Cheers,
Ek

[argus-cronos]

สวัสดีครับ echooo และยินดีตอนรับ

It's really quiet over here you're right. But a huge amount of wazers are around in bkk mainly. A few of them communicate over facebook, but mostly not here in the forum. That's kind a sad.

It is planned to implement the Alt name feature to the new editor, but it takes time. Another thing is how this will be displayed on the client.

It's not really easy to find a perfect naming convention for Thailand. So until now we use the english names on the plagues or other sources.

If you need some help in your aereas just let me know.

Regards
Argus

[echooo]

สวัสดีครับ echooo และยินดีตอนรับ

สวัสดีครับ คุณ Argus ผมยินดีที่ได้เป็นส่วนหนึ่งของชุมชนออนไลน์ wazer เช่นเดียวกัน

It is planned to implement the Alt name feature to the new editor, but it takes time. Another thing is how this will be displayed on the client.

I am looking forward to this feature as well. I hope i18n support on devices includes Thai.
English name can be ambiguous and cumbersome especially when you transliterate (ทับศัพท์).
Sukhumvit Road is a good example that people in this forum mentioned. Fortunately, most people use Sukhumvit.

I came across many Thai names which I cannot find good references.
Examples of them are
ถนนบางกรวย-ไทรน้อย : In waze, we use "Bang Gruay Sai Noi". But I see "Bang Kruai-Sai Noi" elsewhere including google map.
เทเวศร์: I find many transliterates including Thewet and Thevej.

One good source of reference for ถนนบางกรวย-ไทรน้อย case is ราชบัณฑิตยสถาน (The Royal Institute) who made available a directory of province and amphoe in Thailand. (Currently, it's available for download at http://www.royin.go.th/upload/246/FileUpload/1723_5812.pdf)
For ถนนบางกรวย-ไทรน้อย case, I think we have to correct it. We can see from page 20 that
อำเภอบางกรวย is Amphoe Bang Kruai
อำเภอไทรน้อย is Amphoe Sai Noi
So ถนนบางกรวย-ไทรน้อย must be "Bang Kruai - Sai Noi Road".

The Royal Institute also forms a set of rules to tranliterate Thai to English which can be helpful if we find many conflicting uses. http://www.royin.go.th/th/profile/index.php?PageNo=1&PageShow=213&SystemModuleKey=127

If you need some help in your aereas just let me know.

In fact I do.
I would like to make Bang Kruai - Sai Noi Road a split lane road.
https://world.waze.com/editor/?zoom=6&lat=13.87704&lon=100.43406&layers=BFTFTTTTTTFTTFTFTTTTFT
Why?
There are many long islands (median in Waze's Best map editing practice) in the middle of the road. You need to reach there ends in order to make a U-turn. Currently, it is a two-way road which means we can make U-turn anywhere.
What is your thought about this case?
(Currently, I am not an area manager. I tried to correct it by adding another road and make existing one a one-way but I encountered several saving problems and I have to give up.)


Regards
Ek

[argus-cronos]

ยินดีที่ไดรูจักครับ คุณ echoo

I am looking forward to this feature as well. I hope i18n support on devices includes Thai.
English name can be ambiguous and cumbersome especially when you transliterate (ทับศัพท์).
Sukhumvit Road is a good example that people in this forum mentioned. Fortunately, most people use Sukhumvit.

ภาษาไทยจะไมมีปัญหา ดูที่ปากชอง ในแผนที่ waze

In fact we (me and other editors) are agree to use Sukhumvit, cause it's on the plaques and most foreign people or farangs like me know that the same way. Also i was taking care that all segments that i've found have this name. The same is with chaloem maha nakhon expy. We have found a lot of different translations for this expy.

I came across many Thai names which I cannot find good references.
Examples of them are
ถนนบางกรวย-ไทรน้อย : In waze, we use "Bang Gruay Sai Noi". But I see "Bang Kruai-Sai Noi" elsewhere including google map.
เทเวศร์: I find many transliterates including Thewet and Thevej.

In my personal understanding i would use Bang Kruai Sai Noi, also i would vote for Thewet
Of course people have problems with translating Thai language to english cause of the different pronounciation, tonerules or silent endings of syllables. So we will allways find differences.

One good source of reference for ถนนบางกรวย-ไทรน้อย case is ราชบัณฑิตยสถาน (The Royal Institute) who made available a directory of province and amphoe in Thailand. (Currently, it's available for download at http://www.royin.go.th/upload/246/FileUpload/1723_5812.pdf)
For ถนนบางกรวย-ไทรน้อย case, I think we have to correct it. We can see from page 20 that
อำเภอบางกรวย is Amphoe Bang Kruai
อำเภอไทรน้อย is Amphoe Sai Noi
So ถนนบางกรวย-ไทรน้อย must be "Bang Kruai - Sai Noi Road".

The Royal Institute also forms a set of rules to tranliterate Thai to English which can be helpful if we find many conflicting uses. http://www.royin.go.th/th/profile/index.php?PageNo=1&PageShow=213&SystemModuleKey=127

These are good sources thanks for the links. Fortunately most of the transliteration can be found in a few map sources as well. But this is really helpful in case of differences. If you check Bingmaps take care that the citynames are at the right place, cause sometimes they are wrong positioned. Just an example.

Another thing is in most cases i would not label citynames with Mueang or Amphoe (especially not Amphoe) cause they're not well known for international usage, and most people don't know the meaning of Amphoe, Changwat, Tambon or Mueang and other definitions, which can only be found in Thailand, what is your opinion about this?

If you need some help in your aereas just let me know.

In fact I do.
I would like to make Bang Kruai - Sai Noi Road a split lane road.
https://world.waze.com/editor/?zoom=6&lat=13.87704&lon=100.43406&layers=BFTFTTTTTTFTTFTFTTTTFT
Why?
There are many long islands (median in Waze's Best map editing practice) in the middle of the road. You need to reach there ends in order to make a U-turn. Currently, it is a two-way road which means we can make U-turn anywhere.
What is your thought about this case?
(Currently, I am not an area manager. I tried to correct it by adding another road and make existing one a one-way but I encountered several saving problems and I have to give up.)


Regards
Ek

So there are enough Gps points along Bang kruai. Allways take care of these in Thailand, cause many aerials in waze aren't there where they should be. So before people start adding a bunch of roundabouts cause of u-turns i would split this road too.

Perhaps you know that waze did some infrastructure changes and it maybe that your saving errors will find an end in the next days, also there is a delay in updating the map. So if you have enough permissions in this area it shouldn't be a problem. I've noticed that you are allready at lvl2 and i would be happy to see you as an areamanager over there.

If you don't have enough permissions i will look into bang kruai later this day. I've noticed misspelling of Nonthaburi too, some are labelled with Nontaburi, so the first is definitely the better choice. Maybe you can have a look into this as well in the future.

Regards
Argus

[echooo]

Hello Argus,
Many thanks for many helpful explanation.
I don't realize I am now at level 2. In fact, I still don't know how to check it.

ภาษาไทยจะไมมีปัญหา ดูที่ปากชอง ในแผนที่ waze

Do you mean ปากช่อง นครราชสีมา at 14.65297,101.46645? I see it as several squares instead of Thai characters. Does this only happen to me?

ปากช่อง

pakchong.jpg (72.22 KiB) Viewed 729 times

I just had a look at it and also realize its aerial image is terrible.

In my personal understanding i would use Bang Kruai Sai Noi, also i would vote for Thewet
Of course people have problems with translating Thai language to english cause of the different pronunciation, tonerules or silent endings of syllables. So we will allways find differences.

Transliterating เทเวศร์ is challenging. I think the closest sound for Sor-Sala (ศ) is 's'. But having 'es' at the end looks very much like a plural form of 'Thew' and Thewes looks very funny. I need to study transliterating rule of the royal institute before making further embarrassment. Maybe I will check with the bank of Thailand staffs which locates nearby to see how it is used by the government.

Another thing is in most cases i would not label citynames with Mueang or Amphoe (especially not Amphoe) cause they're not well known for international usage, and most people don't know the meaning of Amphoe, Changwat, Tambon or Mueang and other definitions, which can only be found in Thailand, what is your opinion about this?

IMHO, province is the closest match to city. There are 76 provinces in Thailand (excluding Bangkok). But there are over 800 Amphoes here which are too many to remember. I will always use province as a city because waze has only one field for such a thing and 76 is just right, in my opinion. Also, If you use Amphoe, you may not realize where it is because there are Amphoe Muang in all provinces (except Phra Nakhon Si Ayutthaya).

So there are enough Gps points along Bang kruai. Allways take care of these in Thailand, cause many aerials in waze aren't there where they should be. So before people start adding a bunch of roundabouts cause of u-turns i would split this road too.

Perhaps you know that waze did some infrastructure changes and it maybe that your saving errors will find an end in the next days, also there is a delay in updating the map. So if you have enough permissions in this area it shouldn't be a problem. I've noticed that you are allready at lvl2 and i would be happy to see you as an areamanager over there.

Many thanks for that. I will try again. And I will be careful because I don't want to introduce a new problem while trying to solve one.

Cheers,
Ek