Excessive Parking Lot Roads

[bgodette]

So far Waze has only confirmed Parking Lot as having Map Problem and Jam suppression properties, in addition Parking Lot landmarks do the same thing.

So . . . a parking lot landmark will eliminate phantom traffic jams on adjacent streets? I mean, if your gps puts you inside a parking lot landmark the client won't lock you onto the nearest road? Is that confirmed, 'cause that would be awesome!

That was the case the last time I real world tested it. However that was 6+ months ago. A more thorough test needs to be conducted, but can't until map updates start happening faster than once a week.

The test would be to replace a segment of actual street with a new segment so that it only has new drives, wait for map update, create parking lot landmark, wait for map update. Then before driving out to sit in the parking lot for 15-20 minutes, check the 24h average speed in Cartouche, go sit in lot, see if jam appears (shouldn't), then after returning home and after the drive has been analyzed, check the 24h average speed in Cartouche again. Hopefully the 24h average doesn't get impacted, if it does that will need to be fixed by Waze.

And since I brought up Drive Analysis, Waze needs to update the average speed analysis part to exclude the first and last segments a Drive starts/stops on for average speeds (it's already ignored for GPS tracks). I've noticed that segments that I stop and start Waze on regularly, that are through streets, are now approaching or are at 1mph for transit speed.

Which brings up another issue; shutting off Waze does not appear to suppress automatic Jam detection. The backend apparently just sees that as a connectivity issue, instead of a shutdown, and thinks you're just not moving. This may be recent and part of the cause for the Ghost Jams.

[MattDinOC]

Dumb newbie question... What's the problem with parking lot roads? Obviously, marking every single lane of a lot is unnecessary. But here's an example of a parking lot I filled in. I think it's nice to see my car traveling along a designated road in the client instead of jumping around, snapping from one main road to another as it does when no parking lot roads are there...

I just want to understand what the generally accepted practices are and why.

Thanks,
Matt

[bgodette]

Dumb newbie question... What's the problem with parking lot roads?

There's been reports that their behavior has changed, but they cause issues with routing if your origin or destination required traversing one. Turn restrictions would be ignored and routes would be least-segment if more than one Parking Lot segment was involved.

Several attempts were made to work around those issues such as; only making the entrance/exit segments Parking Lot and all internal segments Street; and most recently creating a Parking Lot "chain" segments such that your entrance/exit was Internal<>Street<>Parking Lot<>Street<>Real Road. The chain method works as far as turn restrictions and preventing thru routing, however you lose Jam and Map Problem suppression. However, again, there's been reports that the issues with multi-segment Parking Lots and turn restrictions may have been resolved, I've just not seen a concrete example yet.

[Musonius]

Dumb newbie question... What's the problem with parking lot roads?

There's been reports that their behavior has changed, but they cause issues with routing if your origin or destination required traversing one. Turn restrictions would be ignored and routes would be least-segment if more than one Parking Lot segment was involved.

So, should we completely stop creating parking lot roads and parking lot landmarks for the time-being? Or, am I reading too much into the posts within this topic?

[MattDinOC]

The biggest benefit I see of adding parking lot roads is that they provide a workaround to the "route ends on a limited-access highway" problem.

I tried navigating to my local Costco using GMaps search to find the landmark, and Waze told me that my route ended on the toll road. After I created parking lot roads for the property, the same search gave me the correct route.

I understand from reading this thread why this happens, but the underlying mechanics don't change the fact that Waze gives wrong directions in the absence of parking lot roads.

IMO, ignoring turn restrictions is a minor inconvenience in comparison. The driver can use his/her brain when exiting the property and turn right instead of making the illegal left advised by Waze. (Am I understanding the problem correctly?) And at some point, that routing bug ought to get fixed in Waze anyway, right?

[troyv]

My $.02, (although I am relatively new, so it might be considered $.01), I see parking lots as clutter, but necessary clutter and even occasionally a benefit, as in ability to give directions in some maze like parking lots.

I might get in trouble for this, but I ignore these "hacks" to get turn restrictions and ability to give directions when point A to B are both in the same parking lot. My hope is that Waze will fix these issues, and fix them sooner then later. Every time a hack is put in, that means once Waze gets on top of some of these issues, all these hacks should probably be taken out, which means more work. And these hacks, are just that, hacks. Each type of hack has it's own issues.

[harling]

I might get in trouble for this, but I ignore these "hacks" to get turn restrictions and ability to give directions when point A to B are both in the same parking lot. My hope is that Waze will fix these issues, and fix them sooner then later. Every time a hack is put in, that means once Waze gets on top of some of these issues, all these hacks should probably be taken out, which means more work. And these hacks, are just that, hacks. Each type of hack has it's own issues.

This.

Ideally, road type, geometry etc. should be determined by the actual roads, and not according to how the sometimes-quirky Waze routing engine behaves with them. If the routing engine has trouble with an accurate map, then the fix should be made in the routing engine, not by tweaking/hacking the map to accommodate its current quirks.

That said, I also know first-hand that fixing one bug without creating three more elsewhere is more art than science, so it can be more expedient for us editors to "make it work" directly than to wait for a proper repair. But the farther we stray from an accurate map (e.g., adjusting cross-road length to enable/disable U-turns on split roads), the more we are going to have to revisit when the routing engine is finally working as it ought. That's probably one of the reasons I haven't been doing much editing lately.

[banished]

Zowie!
https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=6&lat ... TTTFTTTTFT

[AndyPoms]

Zowie!
https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=6&lat ... TTTFTTTTFT

and the two entrance/exit roads on the west side of the lot aren't connected to the primary street... **facepalm**

[crazycomputingdotnet]

There is a bunch of mess at Disney too, expecially around the studios and Epcot.