Thailand Wazer

[benzin]

หวังว่าคงอ่านภาษากันได้นะครับ

Hey all Thai Wazers ,
Seems like our map of Bangkok is getting into better shape as time passes, thanks to all wazers and especially the few major map-editors However, I think there's an issue here. We have to communicate with each other here, and set a standard about what type of road should be set for which road types. The road type is quite a mess here especially when joining different areas.

อยากจะให้มีการจัดหมวดหมู่การตั้งรูปแบบถนนเป็น standard เดียวกันน่ะครับ
Here is my suggestions:

Major Highways - All Paid Expressways ทางด่วนทุกแบบ
Minor Highways - Major Streets in Cities (with 3 or more lanes) ถนนใหณ่ 3 เลนขึ้นไป
Primary Roads - Most roads in Cities ถนนส่วนมากในเมือง
Freeways - Roads connecting cities ทางหลวงเชื่อมจังหวัด
Streets - Soi ซอย
Ramps - Bridges สะพาน

I disagree with naming the Paid Expressways as Freeways (as it's wrong by definition)
Please feel free to comment if you have any other suggestions...
หากเห็นด้วย/ไม่เห็นด้วยยังไงก็ reply ที่ post นี้ดูนะครับ

[echooo]

Greeting all wazers in Thailand,

The forum is very quiet in contrast to my belief that wazer base here is growing fast because I see new users on the map everyday.

I am Thai and I am curious whether we reach any agreement on how to supplement street name in Thai. English is an accepted universal language but we are in Thailand where majority of wazers are Thai.

What is your thought? Can we edit "alt. name" in the new map editor?

Cheers,
Ek

[echooo]

สวัสดีครับ echooo และยินดีตอนรับ

สวัสดีครับ คุณ Argus ผมยินดีที่ได้เป็นส่วนหนึ่งของชุมชนออนไลน์ wazer เช่นเดียวกัน

It is planned to implement the Alt name feature to the new editor, but it takes time. Another thing is how this will be displayed on the client.

I am looking forward to this feature as well. I hope i18n support on devices includes Thai.
English name can be ambiguous and cumbersome especially when you transliterate (ทับศัพท์).
Sukhumvit Road is a good example that people in this forum mentioned. Fortunately, most people use Sukhumvit.

I came across many Thai names which I cannot find good references.
Examples of them are
ถนนบางกรวย-ไทรน้อย : In waze, we use "Bang Gruay Sai Noi". But I see "Bang Kruai-Sai Noi" elsewhere including google map.
เทเวศร์: I find many transliterates including Thewet and Thevej.

One good source of reference for ถนนบางกรวย-ไทรน้อย case is ราชบัณฑิตยสถาน (The Royal Institute) who made available a directory of province and amphoe in Thailand. (Currently, it's available for download at http://www.royin.go.th/upload/246/FileUpload/1723_5812.pdf)
For ถนนบางกรวย-ไทรน้อย case, I think we have to correct it. We can see from page 20 that
อำเภอบางกรวย is Amphoe Bang Kruai
อำเภอไทรน้อย is Amphoe Sai Noi
So ถนนบางกรวย-ไทรน้อย must be "Bang Kruai - Sai Noi Road".

The Royal Institute also forms a set of rules to tranliterate Thai to English which can be helpful if we find many conflicting uses. http://www.royin.go.th/th/profile/index.php?PageNo=1&PageShow=213&SystemModuleKey=127

If you need some help in your aereas just let me know.

In fact I do.
I would like to make Bang Kruai - Sai Noi Road a split lane road.
https://world.waze.com/editor/?zoom=6&lat=13.87704&lon=100.43406&layers=BFTFTTTTTTFTTFTFTTTTFT
Why?
There are many long islands (median in Waze's Best map editing practice) in the middle of the road. You need to reach there ends in order to make a U-turn. Currently, it is a two-way road which means we can make U-turn anywhere.
What is your thought about this case?
(Currently, I am not an area manager. I tried to correct it by adding another road and make existing one a one-way but I encountered several saving problems and I have to give up.)


Regards
Ek

[echooo]

Hello Argus,
Many thanks for many helpful explanation.
I don't realize I am now at level 2. In fact, I still don't know how to check it.

ภาษาไทยจะไมมีปัญหา ดูที่ปากชอง ในแผนที่ waze

Do you mean ปากช่อง นครราชสีมา at 14.65297,101.46645? I see it as several squares instead of Thai characters. Does this only happen to me?

ปากช่อง

pakchong.jpg (72.22 KiB) Viewed 848 times

I just had a look at it and also realize its aerial image is terrible.

In my personal understanding i would use Bang Kruai Sai Noi, also i would vote for Thewet
Of course people have problems with translating Thai language to english cause of the different pronunciation, tonerules or silent endings of syllables. So we will allways find differences.

Transliterating เทเวศร์ is challenging. I think the closest sound for Sor-Sala (ศ) is 's'. But having 'es' at the end looks very much like a plural form of 'Thew' and Thewes looks very funny. I need to study transliterating rule of the royal institute before making further embarrassment. Maybe I will check with the bank of Thailand staffs which locates nearby to see how it is used by the government.

Another thing is in most cases i would not label citynames with Mueang or Amphoe (especially not Amphoe) cause they're not well known for international usage, and most people don't know the meaning of Amphoe, Changwat, Tambon or Mueang and other definitions, which can only be found in Thailand, what is your opinion about this?

IMHO, province is the closest match to city. There are 76 provinces in Thailand (excluding Bangkok). But there are over 800 Amphoes here which are too many to remember. I will always use province as a city because waze has only one field for such a thing and 76 is just right, in my opinion. Also, If you use Amphoe, you may not realize where it is because there are Amphoe Muang in all provinces (except Phra Nakhon Si Ayutthaya).

So there are enough Gps points along Bang kruai. Allways take care of these in Thailand, cause many aerials in waze aren't there where they should be. So before people start adding a bunch of roundabouts cause of u-turns i would split this road too.

Perhaps you know that waze did some infrastructure changes and it maybe that your saving errors will find an end in the next days, also there is a delay in updating the map. So if you have enough permissions in this area it shouldn't be a problem. I've noticed that you are allready at lvl2 and i would be happy to see you as an areamanager over there.

Many thanks for that. I will try again. And I will be careful because I don't want to introduce a new problem while trying to solve one.

Cheers,
Ek

[ekapan]

มีใครอยู่บ้างครับเข้ามารายงานตัวกันดีกว่าว่าใช้กับระบบอะไร และเครื่องที่ใช้คือรุ่นไหน สำหรับผม มีทั้ง symbian Nokia 5800 ,android Motorolla Mile stone และ Iphone สลับกันใช้ครับ

[leoviotti]

Hello guys, I'm driving around Thailand and editing maps, but I do not read or speak Thai.

I know there are some guidelines we should follow on the Wiki, and it makes no sense to me why a major street in the city should use "Minor Highway". I do understand Thailand has a different way to operate, but again, the map should be friendly and understandable to ALL, including visitors, and the way things are being done, if anyone who doesn't *REALLY* know the country and traffic around here, all the maps will be absolutely useless.

We are a small, very small actually, group of users. Let's try to stick to the GLOBAL guidelines, presented here?
http://www.waze.com/wiki/index.php/Best ... g_practice

For example, the user "benzin" suggested that we cannot name the elevated tollways as "Freeways", since they are not free. He does not know that Freeways refers to free traffic, with no intersection and few areas that create bottlenecks. That is the essense of a freeway, and not the "free to use" kind of "free".

I do hope we can all make the maps better, always. I am working on them as much as I can, I just enjoy mapping, it's like a therapy, and well, Thailand maps are mega=messy at best, do we have to do our best to make them good!

[leoviotti]

I do have a few suggestions regarding STREET NAMES though... for example, there are many parts of Sukhumvit Rd. named "Sukhumwit Rd.". Even though SukhumWit reflects more precisely the pronunciation of the name in Thai, that's not what we have on the plaques and other navigation devices. My main suggestion is, as the MAIN name, let's use the "common used" names in English (or even in Thai, when I figure out how to add alternate names in the new Editor interface).

Same goes for Petchaburi Rd. (sometimes refered as Petburi), Ratchadaphisek (sometimes writen Ratchada Phisek), and many others. I am slowly "correcting" the translitteration to what we found on the plaques, so it all makes sense to everyone, and not only the ones who know the area (if you know the area, you don't need the map, right? )

[leoviotti]

WOW! I forgot to subscribe to this topic, and I see lots of questions here that I had, but forgot to ask!

Good to see there's more people involved.

I know there's a "better usage for mapping" that says you should never "commit" a road unless you made all the changes. Maybe this is acceptable - maybe not - but I see almost no one using Skype in Thailand (yeah, growing community, but VERY SLOWLY growing), and my main concern is that people install, think it's great, start to use an... no roads. Never open again. Forget about it.

What I started to do, in the areas I know better, and some others I go to, or passed by with some frequency, is to add streets, junctions, roundabouts, allow/disallow the most important turns when possible, set a city, and most of the time, save a bunch of streets as Street (not the main ones, mainly the sois) as "No name". I eventually go back to them and start renaming the ones I know, but at least this makes the map *exist* in some form. You can see "my work" (everyone's work, of course, but the area I maintain with more care) between Sukhumvit Rd, BangNa-Trat, Kanchanaphisek and On Nut (a "square" area). I think it's important we have the roads, even if they have yet no name, but if someone disagrees, of course, let me know.

About naming, I'm doing what I said last time - following the plaques whenever possible, at least what is more common to see around here - and when not, I use the naming convention argus mentioned, the closest I can get of the spoken name (many times with help of my GF). Again, I hope this is acceptable and useable, but suggestions are always welcome.

Now, one question... this week, after a trip to Phu Wiang/Khon Khaen, I noticed parts of the Highway 12 didn't have the "temporary frontage road", which I started to add. I check the GPS traces, and add them to the best of my knowledge and 2 or 3 aerial views I have access to. I decided to make them "Main Street", which was wrong... I checked the guidelines, and frontage-roads are "service roads". This brings my question...

MOST of the main highways in Thailand have "frontage roads", either continuous or in more populated areas (when crossing a city for ex). My closest example and main target here is BangNa-Trat Road, leaving from Samphawut/Sukhumvit. All the way to Chonburi, at least, there is a frontage-road (only area you can drive by motorcycles). Then, between that, we have the MAIN ROAD, higher speed, better asphalt... and ON TOP of the MAIN ROAD, we have the TOLL WAY. Should we add a "Service Road" all the way to Chonburi? After all, traffic "sense" kinda depends on the existence of the FRONTAGE and MAIN roads (and the TollWay should only be accessible through very few existant entrances, maybe even a "two-way" center road, which more or less matches reality). What's your input in this?
(I have now subscribed to this topic and will follow up more closely, as we build up the mega complex map of this maze-country!)

Also, I have finished, to the best of my view and knowledge, "straightening up" Sukhumvit Road, in Bangkok city, since it was mega-horrible to drive around and all I could see was a "snake" on the GPS in front of me. Being such an important road to the city, and considering all roads/sois existing from there are correct (which I still haven been able to check), wouldn't be advisable to lock Sukhumvit Rd, at least in the main urban area? Not something I would do, but would there be a problem in doing so? (btw, the BTS in the middle of the road totally messes up with the GPS navigation, I'm guessing too much electrical interference... don't rely much on GPS traces in that area)

Tks, and lets keep up!

[leoviotti]

Ah, I remembered what else I wanted to ask about...

I was driving around LadPrao today, and I noticed the elevated road appears in many areas in green - as a *RAMP*. As far I know, the Waze driving system uses some kinds of Road Information to determine routes (pretty much useless at the moment, but not forever), and for that reason, this should never be set as RAMP - am I wrong?

In case we set a new rule for this... we must discuss what kind of road would be the one "downstairs" and which one would be the one "upstairs". Going into the highways system, my guess is we could use the "service road" for the bottom - BUT the highways apear very wide on the map, making distinction of things on the screen quite difficult, if they are used inside a heavily loaded city, such as Bangkok.

Moreover, this is a fairly common setup for Bangkok: LadPrao, Rhamkhamhaeng, parts of Chaengwattana and many, many others. What to do? I don't know, RAMP just doesn't seem correct.

[leoviotti]

Hello leoviotti good to see somebody is taking care here
The community isn't that small, but most wazers posting on the FB group instead of the forum.

Oh... I don't really use Facebook that much, I guess I missed that!

I've noticed your great effort in the area of BKK. Many times there are no sources for naming roads. So to add roads even without a roadname makes sense cause there is no basemap here and another one may know the name and can edit the road again. But don't forget the end-nodes. I've added thousends to your network

I didn't know they were needed until now. I already checked the Wiki, and will be adding those from now on. Tks!

I agree to your opinion about the service roads, there are so much here. I've added a lot of freeways to the map and somedays i have to go back and add the service roads as well, cause my first thought was to establish a long range routing first.

Definitely the most important part of the main highways is done. What we need to work on now, and I think it's the "hardest part", are the endless details of a country built with no planning over... at least a few hundred years in the most populated parts. Good thing that I always find news ways when I'm mapping, makes it all worth-while... can't wait to have more people actually using the system (a few thousand in Bangkok, actively using it, at least) so the traffic reports get more accurate and relevant. Longdo and Google Maps still "beat the crap" out of Waze unfortunately. But they are no fun.

There is no problem to lock Sukhumvit, cause automatic changes frome the system still happens. Changes to oneway or other horrible things for instance. This road is a problem cause of the Skytrain and the GPS, but we have to live with that.

Ok, I'll try to review once again Sukhumvit urban area, at least until Samut Prakan where it becomes a highway more than a major street, and we go from there. But the BTS really messes it up, shame.

Ramkamhaeng elevated road woud be better a normal street type than a ramp, i used to set a few elevated roads in bkk to "street", but some other users set them to ramps or primarys. But i won't lock them to my level cause then they are not accessible anymore to others or you. Especially primary streets clutters the map. So it's better to use a slim roadtype for the client.

Totally agreed. Sometimes we have all the roads there, but I can't see what is what, just a "river of blue or yellow". I made some of them like this myself, in Pattanakarn (all Main Street), back in 2011... but once in a while I go back to those places and review them. I'll use your approach from now on, set the elevated ways as Street, seems more reasonable.

Its also better if you lock sensible spots to your AM level, as CM i can override any locks in Thailand and i'm willing to help if there are problems.
So anybody feel free to contact me for unlocks or anything else even in Thai.

I'll start doing that then. I usually avoid locking anything, in hopes local users will get there and add the soi *name* instead than only the *number* (even as alternate name, either in Thai or English), but I'll start locking most sensitive areas. It's "good" not many people undo corrections though (bad actually, I hope there would be more people working on the maps, haha!)

What about a meeting in Bangkok, i'm in the Area until the middle of january? So we could discuss a few things.

We can arrange that, of course. I'm rushing on a few things for the next 2 weeks, but then on, it should be pretty cool for about a month...
And it would be an honour to meet the 3rd most crazy mapper on the Waze system, for sure.