Consistency in SA

[Chriseleven]

I am happy to go with the SA road designators. That would make it simple, eg:
N and M roads are Freeways
Rxx are major highways
Rxxx are minor highways
primary streets are exactly that - the street you would use to drive right through a town or suburb

[Chriseleven]

This of course clashes with the thoughts of RodNav. As I found out when the N2 between PE and Cape Town changes from a freeway to a major highway

[zs2cli]

I am happy to go with the SA road designators. That would make it simple, eg:
N and M roads are Freeways
Rxx are major highways
Rxxx are minor highways
primary streets are exactly that - the street you would use to drive right through a town or suburb

I agree with this 100%. I don't think much can go wrong if editors followed this classification for roads.

Where I do tend to deviate from this is inside towns and cities. Sometimes a N road goes through a small town, and have a bucket of stop streets and maybe the odd robot. For this stretch I tend to classify as Primary Road.

[elphix]

I agree with chriseleven on this one bar the freeway part. I propose a freeway be a major route (N or M) but WITH dual carriageway (the gap between opposing directions). This would let the user distinguish between what truly is a major route and a more minor (but still National) route. I.e. the N1 between JHB and Pretoria is a freeway and the N11 between Middelburg and Groblersdal is a major highway.

Thoughts?

[zs2cli]

I think there is room for some discretion but overall Chriseleven's method is the best in my opinion.

It's only in the really big metros where you find these tricky classification problems, and there the editors who live there and know best can bias the roads accordingly.

[RodNav]

I think we mustn't forget the purpose of the road types. It's not to show a continuous road from eg Cape Town to Joburg. It has to do with waze not wanting to offer a quicker route just because it prefers to use Freeway over say, a Primary road. Remember that over certain route distances (in the forum somewhere and maybe wiki) waze will only use higher types of road if they're available, meaning it won't look for quicker options. This is important when passing thru towns.

Specifically, I feel quite strongly that Freeway should be used only for a true freeway, and Major or Minor Highway for other roads. So for me N roads are Freeway when truly a freeway, otherwise Major Highway. I think the other options could still apply, with discretion for local knowledge. I do feel that Freeway/Highways should be downgraded when in a town, especially the small towns with stop streets and a 60km/h speed limit. Sometimes downgrade to Primary or maybe Minor Highway, depending on the specific town's street layout.

So, after giving a long-winded reason for my thinking, The only thing I really disagree with is using Freeway when it isn't a freeway.

[mithrandi]

I think we mustn't forget the purpose of the road types. It's not to show a continuous road from eg Cape Town to Joburg. It has to do with waze not wanting to offer a quicker route just because it prefers to use Freeway over say, a Primary road. Remember that over certain route distances (in the forum somewhere and maybe wiki) waze will only use higher types of road if they're available, meaning it won't look for quicker options. This is important when passing thru towns.

Do you have a link to a forum post / wiki page talking about this? I was always under the impression that the primary purpose of road type was for drawing the map correctly, not for making significant routing decisions. This is why I've always been against "downgrading" road types, but perhaps I'm misinformed...

[Kuhlkatz]

I think Rod might be correct on the road types and preferences given to routing.

I think we'll have to to hunt through the Wiki & forums to get the ammo, but as I understand it, Freeways are major arterial routes with the ONLY access provided by means of ramps, and with no other intersections or stop signs and traffic signs.

If I look at loads like the N17 for example, or major portions of the N1, it does not qualify as this. There are plenty of crossings, intersections and obviously other access as it goes through countless 'One-Horse' towns along the way.

It's likely easier for the USA where they have DOT classification and information on likely each and every road, but in the good ole ZA, our documentation is a bit lacking in some cases.

[Chriseleven]

OK - can we agree that N routes that are not double carriageway and have side road intersections without on and off ramps are changed to major highways?

[RodNav]

Hi all,

Sorry I haven't responded for a while, I have had a very busy work period. (As a TV freelancer you sometimes work many days in a row!)

mithrandi asked about posts, but as Kuhlkatz said, I would also have to hunt thru the forums to find the info. What I said about the road types and routing is how I understand things from reading many posts, as well as what I seem to experience while driving.

Specifically, driving from Somerset West to Cape Town (about 40-45km) I can stay on freeway type right into the city itself. And I agree with the typing based on the physical road itself. But a while ago there was a major accident which waze was aware of and was showing the heavy traffic, but insisted on routing on the freeway, even though there were many alternate routes that could (should) have been offered. Knowing the area I drove a different route which was definitely a lot quicker. I could see the traffic at a total standstill, yet waze keep trying to route back into the traffic.

Now, in this case I don't propose changing the type, but I use this to illustrate why I'm reasonably sure that road typing affects the routing. For a road going thru a town, leaving it as a Major Highway type when there are many stop streets or traffic lights might not seem a problem, but for those living there, waze might not work so well.

Searching for "routing road types" I found this in a French posting at
https://world.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=23408&p=248134&hilit=routing+road+types#p248120

0-15 km - All road types are allows for routing.
15-20 km - All road types except Streets.
20-30 km - All road types except Streets and Primary streets.
30-200 km - Only Minor, Major, and Freeways.
more than 200 km - only Freeways.

It seems to come from support but will take me bit longer to find. What it shows is that roadtyping most certainly affects the choice of roads used, depending on route length. It certainly would explain my experienced described above. I think the word "only" should actually be "only (when available)" otherwise it wouldn't find a route at all in some cases!

To answer chriseleven's question, my vote is a strong yes. I'm still not sure how to define the difference between Major and Minor highways, but I do think if it's an N road it should be a Major Highway when not a Freeway. Perhaps it could be dropped to a Minor Highway thru towns?. Thoughts on this?

Now I must get ready for another day's work - freelancers have unusual hours!