If the road really is so slow, then Wazers won’t be routed that way. I don’t know where everyone gets the idea that Waze will all of a sudden “misroute” Wazers all over the place just 'cause road types are higher. It’s preposterous. Waze is still going to keep you on I-15 if it’s the fastest route. But the US highway should still be available in case of a serious accident on I-15, a closure for freeway reconstruction, or anything else.
US-89 through that area is designated as a principal arterial - other (so, Major) through the area, anyway. So are SR-73 to the west and SR-114 to the south.
Keep your subjective ideas about what road types “should be” and implement this system and I’m absolutely confident you will see an improvement. That’s kind of the point, and trust me: it works. Well.
As for US-89 ALT, I don’t doubt that it’s a scenic route, but it’s not a “Scenic” route. There is only one route in the US Hwy system that is marked “Scenic”, and it’s US-40 Scenic in Maryland.
US 89 Scenic is marked as such. So how it can be so marked and not be so is beyond me.
As to the other segment, it’s not in competition with the Interstate or US 89, but with other arterial routes (I don’t recall the SR designators at the moment. SR-73 and 114 are both almost 100 miles away from where I am referring to.
In this case were I to mark that section of road as a Major Hwy it would get routing preference over the Minor Hwy routes that are the arterials the one it comes off of is under construction and does see major slowdowns, the other end of that segment is a primary street and is a suggested detour, but not through that neighborhood, the detour is at a higher capacity intersection and connector, but if I suddenly change the segment to Maj Hwy, it WILL dump a lot more traffic onto a road that cannot and should not handle it.
I was looking for US-89 Scenic signs and haven’t found them yet. What I composed before your post was the following: I think the key is Russblau’s point that what matters is how the highway is signed. It doesn’t matter whether the road has some “scenic” or “national” designation if it isn’t signed with a U.S. Route shield with that designation. Thus, US-89A should be treated like any US route because its signed that way. US-40 Scenic should be treated as scenic route because it is signed that way.
As an aside in looking for US-89A signs in streetview, I got confused with state 89A and saw this sign, which makes it look like someone keeps routes around for their historical significance alone.
Like CBenson said — that route is called, and signed as, “US-89A”. That’s the route designation. Local names (“Fredonia-Vermilion Cliffs Scenic Road”) have no bearing on road type. The only route designated as scenic is US-40 Scenic in Maryland. US-412 ALT in Oklahoma was called US-412 Scenic until 2012.
Sorry, I assumed you were talking about American Fork. You’d have to show me what you’re talking about. For starters, “Historic Lincoln Highway” is a local name, not a US route designation, so it has no bearing on road type, if that’s what you’re worried about.
Well, not exactly. Some state highways have elected to mark “Historic Route 66”, but US-66 was deleted by the AASHTO/FHWA/whatever in 1985.
A bit more on my example, my point was originally that some designations are kept and signed for historical purposes. The segment in question is not even a SR at this point (it’s in Riverdale UT) much of the Historic Lincoln Hwy in that area is a SR, this segment has lost even that designation.
The Key is that the Lincoln Hwy is not part of the US Highway system, it isn’t a local name, It is a National Historical route, but one that hpos frequently between road classifications, much of it’s lenght it is US Hwy, other areas it is SR, other areas are part of the Interstate System (I-80 across the salt flats). Further the designated route has either been changed to match newer improved roads (like the Interstate in some areas) or has been downgraded all the way to residential street having a prior US route designation taken from it to be used on newer, better nearby arterials.
But the Lincoln Hwy, the first Highway, does still exist running coast to coast and carries the designation hwy, even if the street is not a hwy by today’s standards.
Perhaps I could have been more precise. I meant that US Highway designations are not kept for their historical significance. “Lincoln Highway” is not part of the US Highway system and therefore has no bearing on the road type system.
On that we can agree and that was my original point. Maybe I was misunderstanding but I read the conversation at that point as saying the Lincoln Hwy should be marked as such because of it’s historical status, you said (my interpretation) nobody is keeping such designations for historical reasons, and so I pointed out a section of said Hwy that is not and should not be marked as Maj Hwy, even though it is part of the original hwy as built.
I think that the section that I cited (McConnellsburg, PA) is designated as US-30 for the simple reason that no other road has ever been built to replace it and it hasn’t important enough to upgrade (unlike, say, between Breezewood and Bedford). It became US-30 because there wasn’t anything better at the time. US-30 followed the Lincoln Hwy which followed existing roads. That’s the history.
This section of highway retains the designation US-30 not for nostalgic reasons and certainly not because someone determined that it is a viable route for any trip longer than 100 miles, but because it wasn’t replaced and it still is a (treacherous) highway.
[Edited to clarify that I refer only to the mH section of US-30 I previously cited; my remarks are not applicable to the Lincoln Hwy in general.]
Not entirely, in that area yes existing roads were linked together, but in many areas new roads were built, introducing a newer higher quality engineering.
I was simply saying that the section in question, which is part of US-30, should be marked as Major because it’s part of US-30 (and because it’s a principal arterial), not because it’s part of the Lincoln Highway. What I meant was that they did not keep the US-30 designation simply because of the route’s historical value.
In any case it’s a historical highway, not a current active US highway. I’ve got plenty of that around here from I-70 making large parts of US-6 historical and un-maintained except by the state.
One word, Construction. As I mentioned in another comment changing the road to a preferred road type would dump traffic because of a major construction project nearby, the sectin in question runs between a mH and a Primary road, a good deal of traffic is being diverted over to the primary road, but on a road designed for increased capacity. Further I also stated that my point was in reguards to what I understood as someone claiming the Lincoln Hwy as equal to a US Hwy.
So no, there is no need to change the road type. But should such a change be made it would in fact result in a great deal of traffic being dumped onto that road as the construction currently has speeds well below the 25 mph of the residential road.
At this point you’re trying to disprove my system through some example that isn’t even real, just the result of a misunderstanding. I don’t know why you’re still trying to argue this point. It’s completely irrelevant.
If you’d actually read the proposed rules you would know that principal arterials and US HIGHWAYS are to be set as major highway. US Highways are highways with a number and US in front of the number. Again, the Pennsylvania example is major because it’s US-30, not because it’s the Lincoln Highway. So whatever might happen on your section of the “Historic Lincoln Highway” is irrelevant unless it has a US route number, which it does not.
And it would not act like you say it would, regardless. No, it wouldn’t. That’s not how it works. I don’t know why so many people come in and think it works that way.
Even if it does, you cannot look at one road in a vacuum and think ‘what would happen if I upgraded this road?’ That’s not relevant either. The proper question to ask is ‘what would happen if I upgraded a bunch of these roads’, and the answer is ‘routing will improve dramatically’, and the method is detailed in the original post of this thread.
Again, what makes you think that will happen just because the type is changed? Type does not include any preference when there’s historical data and this has been demonstrated ad-infinitum. All type does it determine when a potential route running over it will get pruned depending on total route length, run length of the section in question, and where in that route that section is. Pruning is not preference.
So unless this section of road exists in the middle of nowhere with no cell coverage or was just deleted and redrawn in the last week, type is meaningless in terms of reroutes due to construction.
In the Southeast, we’re handling it at a regional level instead of each state going rogue. It works because all 3 states are so similar in their road systems.
