South Pine Road Everton park

Map Editors Community Australia Unlock / Update / Closure Requests
21

Apologies for the slightly long post.

So the initial issue was two right turn instructions turning from Griffith St onto South Pine Rd and now has become an issue of should the road be divided and now be changed back to a single undivided road.

If the road is not producing a great number of UR’s and is working ok, I wouldn’t waste time in changing it back. There are advantages and disadvantages of single verses divided roads.

Yes, the main objective in editing the map is not to fully copy the physical road layout. Don’t map everything you see on the map as some of it will just clutter the map. By keeping things simple it helps in reducing map maintenance.

When we edit, we sometimes we forget that Waze is a global application that is not only used by locals but by others in other states and internationally.

Locals forget that others can visit and are able to use Waze when driving around. They would then be the ones who would rely on the instructions as they are not local to the area.
When the map has been edited correctly the TTS prompts are very useful in helping you to your destination.

Having used Waze both locally, insterstate and internationally, I find it much more useful with the spoken instructions. You can then concentrate on driving in unfamiliar surroundings and can listen to the TTS prompts.

Even better is when it speaks the street name for the next turn you need to perform.

When driving internationally, even with a local in the car, when the TTS prompts don’t announce the street name there have been a number of times where we have missed an exit or not turned onto the correct road.

The Turn Angle section of the Interactive junction instruction algorithm page of the Wiki has a lot of information about how instructions are provided and there will be more information both in the Wiki and the forums about this.

This all comes back to both the exit and the entry connection angles of the road used to do this. It also depends on what road type the road is leaving and joining.

Currently the map tile updates have been a bit slow so any changes performed may not have made it to the map. A good thing to do, if you are to, is set up a test area where you can make changes to see what happens with the TTS prompts instead of trying it on a main road where changes can affect alot of users.

This thread on Simplicity and road merging flaw- need revision on rule has some very valid points on why dividing some roads are appropriate on occasions. This is not to say all should be divided but should be on a case to case basis.

The original poster brings up some valid points in his initial post and I know first hand the issues that are caused by being routed to the wrong side of a a divided road over there. It is not a simple matter of finding a place to turn around to you destination.

It is frustrating when you can see your destination across the road, but to get there can involve an extra 5km’s or more of driving and more than 10 minutes driving time just to get to the other side of the road.

This is not a simpe process and takes a great amount of time when dividing or undividing a road. I would leave it as is and fix up the other issues in the area.

As it is, it will route you to your destination on the correct side of the road. There are provisions for u-turns provided and Waze will use them and route you correctly.

A quick look around finds a number of things that can be easily fixed instead of a major editing task.

Road names are a mixture of abbreviated and unabbreviated names. Some roads, some sections have been done others sections haven’t.

This carpark road is made up of four segments.

The TTS prompt here and here will be wrong due to the wrong geometry used at these intersections.

Sections of South Pine Rd have no city name and should there be a route number for the section north of Stafford Rd? If it hasn’t, is of the correct road type.

The Queensland section of the Road types/Australia page of the Wiki says that

so shouldn’t SR40 - Queens Rd be a minor highway type?

Places such as Jorgensen Mutzelburg Dental, Harvey Norman or Spotlight should be a point type.
The Matilda Garage doesn’t have any details except a phone number.

Yes, the Places pointed out are old but whilst editing in the area they can be updated to the current Places page of the Wiki.

Lots of things that can be done and still to be done.

22

@glomp

If the intersection that we are talking about was blank (no roads anywhere) would you single or dual carriage it?

23

If it was like a fresh unedited area, then I would have done it as a single, less work and easier to maintain.

Basically it would be, draw it, get roads connected and move on to next area… :lol:

24

How did you find that? There is no way in the world that I would have thought that Queens Road should be SR or minor highway. But after looking for countless big green signs on streetview, I managed to find just one that shows the blue 40 sign Queens Road.

As to whether it should be a minor highway, that is a different argument.

25

So the Wiki has guidelines for the typing of road types as to what they should be in Waze so we can have some form of uniformity across all states, so I’m not sure what you are trying to say.

The majority of states bar WA, SA & NT have the important roads with types all over the place. Roads typed as minor highways when they should be primary streets, primaries when they should be higher and the list goes on.

When, having to edit interstate, the inconsistancy in road types in QLD, NSW and Victoria shows people either do not know about, haven’t read or have chosen to ignore the Road types/Australia and Road names/Australia pages of the Wiki, which we use to edit the map.

Some roads haven’t been looked at for a long time but the important main roads with route numbers should be all completed by now. The work to add these to the road names is over 12 months old, as the majority of discussions regarding them were from November 2013.

Route numbers in road names: Opinions?
Road shields in Australia!!!
What determines Major Hwy, Minor Hwy, Primary Street?

As to the use of the correct road type, the Wiki is a constantly changing entity and we have to keep up with the changes that are performed to them.

26

I am just plainly saying, how did you notice that Queens Road is incorrectly labelled? I travel across this road on average once a day and it did not occur to me that it was incorrectly labelled.

27

Its a tough one

And there probably isn’t a right or wrong

In the past one state was doing it one way and another state another.

We made a wiki entry for Guide/reference and its probably not perfect but most people seem to be happy with it.

28

glomp has an eye for detail :slight_smile:

We all have different skills :slight_smile:

29

I’ve always had a slightly different view in respect to waze mapping priorities.

I’ve always been of the view we are volunteers and you can choose what you want to do. As long as the map is in no worse shape than when you started.

I’ve always been strong on “routing” vs “small details”

e.g. in NZ you can name streets “Hill Rd” or “Hill Road” doesn’t matter to routing or TTS (all the joined segments need to be the same though)

My point is if TTS is a problem for somebody I don’t think we should hold them back for converting dual carriage to single just because a “place” is named in-correctly

30

I was pointing out that this is named as a state route and is a primary street type when it should be a minor highway type.

You will find that a lot of roads that you travel on, you won’t know if it has a route number because alot of them do not have any signs that are visible. Most should be on the BGS’s but sometimes they are just a small wayside maker shield on the side of the road.

Unless you are looking for them you generally don’t see them. Before adding route numbers to to the streets with them, when driving around I never noticed them before when driving on those roads.

Now, when driving, I see them all the time as I now am aware of the route numberings of the numbered routes.

The best place to check what roads have route numbers would be your state roads department, another one place to check is the Road Routes in Queensland page of Wikipedia.

I think he will gain more knowledge with leaving this as a divided road.

Having to understand and deal with what needs to be done to get the right instructions for TTS becase of junction angles, issues with having to fix u-turn avoidance and the general extra work that comes along with a divided road.

When divided roads are done correctly they generally don’t produce many issues and are just as easy to maintain as an undived road.

Whilst we edit, we also have to do the “boring” things like making sure places are correct. In mature map areas the opportunity to add new roads is low, but when fixing these you can come across things missing or incorrect around them.

I am still finding roads not added to the map in suburbs that have not been edited in many months or years. Some of the roads are not new and simply were not added when the initial editor was editing there. These would not have been added had I not been checking or adding a place in an area I was looking at.

All the work we did to add service stations to the map, half of the information we added to them no longer is there when they changed from landmarks to places.

All the street addesses of service stations have to be added back to them as they seem to have been lost during the conversion process.

Alot of Shell/Coles Express have converted back to a small square as per the initial import of them, instead of the area we had changed them to when we were doing the service station project.

All edits whether adding new content such as a new road or place, fixing UR’s or MP’s, fixing road alignments, simplifying and removing excess geometry nodes helps gain more understanding of the map.

Even going back and looking at the work you did when first starting out editing, you will see many things that need to be fixed up because you didn’t have the neccessary edits behind you to have known.

With these edits under your belt, you now notice and know how to edit smarter.

31

The road types all over Brisbane are not quite right.

I was working to a well defined 4 levels of road types defined by Queensland Globe before they transitioned to only 2 levels, arterial and minor.

After this transition, I updated the aforementioned wiki section for QLD back to our old method which had SR roads as Minor Hwy. I did not take the time after that to update the road types throughout the city. One day I might, though does the changing of a road type affect it’s speed data at all?

32

As far as I know, it should affect the speed data.

Not having the appropriate road type just means Waze won’t prefer the logical main roads when working out which roads it will use in routing.

33

Nope, it does not set the default speed on segments already containing drive data.

Back to the original subject: I admit to have lost it…what do you want the junction to do?

34

From my understanding this statement is kind of correct. I understand it depend a lot on the route length. If it is a really short trip most road types will be assessed. If its a really long trip The highest road type will take preference which sometimes is unfortunate.

35

summary

a section of road/intersection has been converted from single to dual carriage, then a intersection on this route is now giving TTS problems.

This intersection has now got quite complex. (as it does with dual carriage)

A few solutions have been suggested

I suggested just turning the road back to a simple intersection by removing the dual carriage!

I don’t think anybody disagreed that that this would fix the problem.

For some reason glomp has some resistance to this solution???

36

Thanks Shane, so far I got it.
Thing is, those are the various answers to the question, I agree also to your solution as one possible method.
My inquiry was but more to the question, in a way about which TTS instructions are considered to be expected/appropriate on this junction?

I understand glomps reservation on unsplitting due to the possible loss of traffic data if done wrong, no doubt that you personally would do it proper, still changing is not without risk and should not be encouraged.

P.S.: despite that it will not help now, what started as big junction in beta WME will indeed be a solution for the (near?) future, when it will be possible to add specific TTS via this feature…but not yet.

37

The original report has been fixed. Any further work on the intersection has now been adjusted so that all instructions (as far as I understand) should now come through accurately.

I’ll be going straight through there today from Stafford Rd to Griffith St so I can test the straight through instruction (or lack thereof), unfortunately, knowing my short term memory, I’ll forgot to check as I drive through.

38

You will probably forget it if you hear nothing, but if you get a turn left to Griffith Street, then you will remember it, because then you remember that it is wrong :stuck_out_tongue:

39

We have two questions before us:

  1. What to do about Queens Road? From reading the wiki, it does need to be changed to Minor Highway at it is a State Road. Even though from my extensive travelling back and forth along it, it being a state road is absurd. There is even major roadworks on it at the moment that is limiting travel to 40kph.

  2. The unsplitting of South Pine Road. To be honest are we really talking about whether it is in the best interests of the site to do it, or if we can be bothered to do it at all? Because it is a whole lot of work, for how much gain, really?

I think the issue of splitting/unsplitting of roads becomes more important if we ever get the ability to allow u turns. Because a u turn from an unsplit road can be easily added, but not so easily from a split road.

40

I got a keep left onto Griffith St, had sound down but looked at the prompt on the screen. A bit of trickery could fix it, might try it later.

Regarding Queens Rd, I changed it to Minor Hwy last night to match the SR designation, I did this right back to Dawson Pde. I downgraded some non state routes to Primary Streets too, along with the level to 1 from 3.

I believe the un-splitting of South Pine Rd would be a good idea to fix up this junction (it would remove lots of junctions, geometry points and segments that just aren’t required). Whether we continue up Old Northern Rd is another question altogether and in this case, I would say not to proceed past South Pine Rd (no need to reset too much traffic data in one hit, even if I have done large sections of un-splitting in the past elsewhere).