The general wiki section on Abbreviations & Acronyms states that suffixes should be abbreviated to a specified standard. In that article it details whether the suffix abbreviation has been tested with TTS to ensure that directions are correctly translated into a full word and spoken.
The Canadian map editing wiki contradicts this by stating that Canada Post suffix abbreviations should be used. In some cases, the abbreviation varies from the prescribed version in the general wiki (Ct vs Crt, Ter vs Terr). In most cases they don’t bother with an abbreviation or contraction at all.
The abbreviations in the general wiki are certainly more aggressive, but personally I prefer this. My thought would be that Canada Post has a specific requirement that lead to their flavour of street suffix contractions, which doesn’t necessarily dovetail with the requirements of mapping.
Anyway, I guess my real questions are 1) do these Canada Post alternative abbreviations work correctly with TTS? 2) Is it acceptable to use either?
I think the idea of using the Canada Post abbreviations is a good one. It’s the set that Canadians in general will most likely have the least trouble interpreting, since all the large-volume mailers standardize their mail-outs by this system. And it’s the only set of abbreviations we are going to find that treat English and French equally.
The thing with abbreviations is that they are great savers of space and time, but only if the reader can interpret them effortlessly. To be easily understood, they must be commonly used. A lot of the abbreviations in the big spreadsheet are not very common, or at least they look strange to me personally, so I would hesitate to use them.
As for whether the whole Canada Post list has been verified to work correctly on the TTS, good question. That recommendation was already on the wiki when I arrived at Waze about a year ago, and I always assumed that they had been verified working, but I guess it could be that no one has done a thorough test.
It might be an idea to change the wiki to also allow abbreviations that are actually used on local street signs and that have been TTS verified. If they are used on local signs they wouldn’t confuse users. But if we do that, I would also recommend that we also list these local abbreviations by city in the wiki so that we can all edit the map consistently.
Are you sure he’s overruling it consciously and not just using what is used on the street signs?
We’ve got another issue in Alberta – “Trail” is common. However, CanadaPost says “TRAIL” is the appropriate abbreviation, “Tr” is on the signs (and doesn’t work in TTS) and “Trl” is what abbreviates it, but also works in TTS.
I’ve been allowing the “Trl” format when someone else has done it, as it’s close enough…
I’m been tempted to start renaming the alleyways around my house to see which of the Canada Post abbreviations are correctly translated by TTS.
Tr and Trl are a common problem on the Garmin GPS units. On their maps, some trails are abbreviated Tr, and some Trl. The former is read out by TTS as “Track” (so, Glenmore Track, Blackfoot Track), and the latter as “Trail”, (Crowchild Trail etc). It’s jarring. And clunky.
It’s for exactly this reason I prefer to either not contract, or to use the US contractions.
Many of them are the same. If you find a CanadaPost abbreviation that does not work, let me know, and I’ll take it to the Waze staff… the standard of using CanadaPost abbreviations has been in place for more than a year, with the understanding that they all worked in TTS.
I’ll continue to use the Canada Post contractions as advised in the Canada map editing guide then.
As a side note, this list of tested contractions/abbreviations hasn’t been updated in a while it seems, but Crt (as an example) was identified to be tested, but never actually tested. Or rather, maybe never documented as tested :geek:
What Canada Post uses and what’s actually on the street signs are two different things. I always thought, per the wiki, we were using the former, regardless of whether it made sense.
If the difference is enough to cause confusion on the part of the driver, then we should go with the sign.
Saying “to Trans-Canada Hwy” might be appropriate, if that’s what the ramp sign says – even though CanadaPost would always refer to that street by highway number. (For example)
Hello Invented and the rest of you here.
I was away for a while and I see that I was mentioned in this discussion.
I think that the rules should be as follows:
If TTS is valid for Canada Post road suffix it should be used, if not the road suffix should be used according to the TTS so it pronounced properly on the App.
The exception to this will be if the road signage is different to the Canad Post road suffix. The DVP (Don Valley Parkway) in Toronto is a great example. While Canada Post suffix for “Parkway” is “Pky”, none of the road signage to the DVP are reading “Don Valley Pky”, they are all showing “Don Valley Pkwy”, and it is better to use this as it match the road signage and avoid confusion from users.
When it comes to local street that has a “Parkway” suffix, I think that the municipal signage will follow the Canada Post guidance as “Pky”.
The only municipality I can think of that uses “Pky” on their signs is Toronto. But they do other weird stuff like “Av”, and I don’t see this reflected on the Waze map?
I’m seeing a lot of “Ct” for courts - was there a conclusion on sticking to the canada post guidelines (Crt) or are we going to be flexible and allow both as long as they read out ok?
Pick an obscure location that is wide open for driving and create a Waze island of roads. Then when the map updates you can go drive there and see how things get pronounced.