Couple of comments on the great discussion in the last couple of posts …
MVUMs and Levels:
It seems that there is a difference between levels and what is on the Motor Vehicle Use Maps.
Any level of road not on the MVUMs should not be mapped, from what I am told by USFS staff.
My guess is that level-1 (closed) roads are not on the map, but there is no guarantee that any other level road would not be on the map.
My approach here was to use the map as an absolute yes/no factor on regular or private and the level as something to decide by discussion here.
Level-1, motorcycle-only
I like what daknife has to say about this. Good points.
Perhaps we should think more broadly to the other trail/path types and be consistent with how they are treated. I was a bit conflicted because motorcycles/ATVs could go over them as opposed to a walking trail not meant for any motorized vehicle.
If we say the rule is that at least a passenger vehicle must be able to go on the road to map it at all, then I think it is clear and more clear guidance could be added to the Wiki page.
Just considering a worst-case scenario, we would not Waze to be considered a liability and blamed for someone’s poor judgment. I noticed that daknife is participating in a GPS Error thread in the Utah forum that would be along the same lines of what is being discussed here–someone blindly follows their GPS and ends up in trouble. Blame the device. Even if Waze’s navigation won’t lead you down a private road, someone in a passenger vehicle may still decide to venture down an inappropriate trail simply because it appears on the map. With that under consideration, I would vote that even if it appears on the MVUM, if it cannot be navigated safely by a passenger vehicle, it should not be mapped.
I just did a major revision of the functional classification mapping. I realized my approach was very centric to the USFS GIS data and not from the perspective of a Waze editor that was looking at various data sources.
So I changed the USFS-Waze mapping section to reflect the sources of information a Waze editor would have.
I have not been keep up with this thread as I don’t think I’ve ever come across a FSR. I’ve read the current page and it looks great to me. There is one factor that you might want to consider. I usually do look to the GPS layer when determining whether mountain roads/trails should be mapped. I’m much more likely to keep them on the map if wazers have actually used them. Of course I’m not looking at roads that have nice federal classifications like the FSRs.
Cbenson – good point. I’ve used the GPS layer in WME to look to see if roads are traveled in remote areas as well as how much roads are traveled in cities.
I have been suspicious of that data though because it seems sparse in rural areas and because I think we are getting some kind of sliding window of data, perhaps only the past couple weeks, month, or something like that.
Has there been precedent in the Wiki and forum for using the GPS layer to inform road mapping/editing (other than things like new construction)?
GPS layer might be used as a guide, but I don’t know if that should be used as the only way to validate mapping a remote road. I don’t know how the GPS points are ‘tallied’ by the Waze system, but I suspect that they might use the cellular system. I find that when driving around in the mountainous areas of E. TN (Cherokee National Forest - many Forest Service roads), where cell coverage is sparse, Waze will not recognize these areas as ‘my local driving area.’ I can’t tell if this has an affect on the GPS spots.
Exactly, I’m only suggesting that the GPS is one factor in mapping and typing the roads. The GPS layer is certainly not reliable as the sole source for validating roads.
After thinking about GPS a bit, I am wondering if this belongs on a specific page like Forest Service Roads. GPS usage in editing can happen anywhere, remote or local. I would have to put the same thing on Indian Reservation Roads and similar pages.
For specific remote usage techniques, it would not be specific to USFS roads, but any remote road. Seems like such usage tips should be included elsewhere in the Wiki.
I’ve added a new page on the National Park Service. I’ve done this because it became clear there is an intersection of the other types of land… USFS, BLM, Indian Reservation, with these roads. Since they’re all very much to somewhat related, I’ve added a link between them.
The most “standards like” element of this page is naming convention of all USFS roads not otherwise labeled with popular names to “FS-XXXX.” This would consolidate a number of road naming approaches from the base map into one. Some of the roads do have FS xxxx or F S xxxx, while others have Forest Service, or Forest Rte, and many others.