Service Roads

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Re: Service Roads

Postby bgodette » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:47 pm

sketch wrote:
mapcat wrote:I agree with all four of your examples. BUT: Even though the urban frontage roads in Texas, Oklahoma, and a few other states are major roads in and of themselves, worthy of being called primary street due to their heavy use, should they be considered as part of the "primary road" type selected for long-distance routing?

Having lived in Houston for some time, I would say yes, for sure. If traffic is bad on the main road, as it often is, it's sometimes faster to drive along the frontage road. At least it certainly felt that way! :lol:

Same situation here with the I-25 frontage road(s) and certainly for sections of "frontage" roads along I-70.
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Re: Service Roads

Postby sketch » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:09 pm

mapcat wrote:I agree with all four of your examples. BUT: Even though the urban frontage roads in Texas, Oklahoma, and a few other states are major roads in and of themselves, worthy of being called primary street due to their heavy use, should they be considered as part of the "primary road" type selected for long-distance routing?

Having lived in Houston for some time, I would say yes, for sure. If traffic is bad on the main road, as it often is, it's sometimes faster to drive along the frontage road. At least it certainly felt that way! :lol:
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Re: Service Roads

Postby mapcat » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:52 pm

bmitch3020 wrote:I hate the idea of abusing a road type because of how it's used by the app, rather than fixing the app to handle other road types better, but you make a good point.

Same here, but eventually you recognize the typical turnaround for changes on the backend and realize you have to resort to kludges like this if you want it to work correctly before next year.
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Re: Service Roads

Postby bmitch3020 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:33 pm

mapcat wrote:
bmitch3020 wrote:I've seen service roads used for the "official use only" connections between the sides of the interstate (e.g. those bits of road used by police).

Please feel free to delete those. Since it's usually illegal for drivers to use them, and because anyone getting driving instructions that uses them will think Waze is clueless, it's best to eliminate the possibility of a route including any of those segments.

Will do, thanks mapcat.

mapcat wrote:There's no shame in using parking lot roads for segments that need to be on the map, but shouldn't be used for routing. Current wisdom is that they have the highest driving penalty. Some editors are conducting tests so we'll know for sure.

I hate the idea of abusing a road type because of how it's used by the app, rather than fixing the app to handle other road types better, but you make a good point.
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Re: Service Roads

Postby phantomblack » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:12 pm

mapcat wrote:
bmitch3020 wrote:I've seen service roads used for the "official use only" connections between the sides of the interstate (e.g. those bits of road used by police). I'm pretty sure they should be changed to private or parking lot roads.

Please feel free to delete those. Since it's usually illegal for drivers to use them, and because anyone getting driving instructions that uses them will think Waze is clueless, it's best to eliminate the possibility of a route including any of those segments.

I had been wondering this myself so far I have been setting them as parking lot. I figured they should be deleted but couldn't bring myself to do it. I remember how impressed I was with an early navigation software that actually showed them "wow what detail" Destinator I think it was or maybe and early version of I-Go. Since then I have come to appreciate the ability to see a potential radar trap location just over the next hill.
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Re: Service Roads

Postby mapcat » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:58 pm

bmitch3020 wrote:I've seen service roads used for the "official use only" connections between the sides of the interstate (e.g. those bits of road used by police). I'm pretty sure they should be changed to private or parking lot roads.

Please feel free to delete those. Since it's usually illegal for drivers to use them, and because anyone getting driving instructions that uses them will think Waze is clueless, it's best to eliminate the possibility of a route including any of those segments.

Right now, I'm planning to use "Private Road" for anything that shouldn't be routed and isn't a parking lot.

There's no shame in using parking lot roads for segments that need to be on the map, but shouldn't be used for routing. Current wisdom is that they have the highest driving penalty. Some editors are conducting tests so we'll know for sure.

CBenson wrote:I would add one more dimension into this discussion. It seems to me that the service road type may have been necessary when waze seemed to be maintaining it own address numbers. Thus, we might need some guidance from waze on what the long term plans are for address numbers. If the only difference between "street" and "service road" was that routing worked better to address on the "service road" if there was an adjacent highway of the same name and waze is going to rely on third party sources for address information going forward, then the "service road" type may well be obsolete now.

Different Waze staff have different answers about this. Consider the address number database to be in flux.
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Re: Service Roads

Postby bmitch3020 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:29 pm

DonJ2 wrote:So what road type should we use for roads that exist for service vehicles only?


Right now, I'm planning to use "Private Road" for anything that shouldn't be routed and isn't a parking lot.

Feature request: I'd like to have the ability to tag the types of private roads, and then have a choice on the app to allow the usage of certain types of roads. E.g. tags for residential usage, gated community, cemetery, business/theme park, emergency vehicles, and military base. I may not mind Waze navigating me to my friend's driveway, but don't try to drive me through a military base. The app can automatically allow a tag when it sees you use a road, and prompt to allow a tag when navigation could use a private road.
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Re: Service Roads

Postby CBenson » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:09 pm

I would add one more dimension into this discussion. It seems to me that the service road type may have been necessary when waze seemed to be maintaining it own address numbers. Thus, we might need some guidance from waze on what the long term plans are for address numbers. If the only difference between "street" and "service road" was that routing worked better to address on the "service road" if there was an adjacent highway of the same name and waze is going to rely on third party sources for address information going forward, then the "service road" type may well be obsolete now.
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Re: Service Roads

Postby DonJ2 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:06 pm

Another consideration for service road definition...

In venues such as theme parks (like Disney World), college campus and large parks, I have seen many examples of roads that exist for service vehicles only, not for public use. In many cases, the basemaps have them labeled as streets, and of course waze will use them for routes, even though they are not for public use. I've seen a lot of URs due to this issue. If service road had a lower priority than street, we could assign service road to these segments to try to prevent their use. I have already seen many cases were service road type is being used on these road segments, but if the priority is no different than street, then it seems pointless to change the type at all. Maybe we should be using private road instead? Does private road actually have a penalty lower than street? I used to believe that I knew how the different road types affected routing, until I read in the forum that primary street has the same priority as street, I always thought that primary street was used over street, it still blows my mind that this is not true.

So what road type should we use for roads that exist for service vehicles only?
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Re: Service Roads

Postby bmitch3020 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:41 am

gettingthere wrote:Aren't some editos using Service Roads for Alleys?


I've seen service roads used for the "official use only" connections between the sides of the interstate (e.g. those bits of road used by police). I'm pretty sure they should be changed to private or parking lot roads. I guess an editor read that as "a road for service vehicles" and was probably the same thinking for those alleyways.

I've also seen a lot of routing issues where people are routed off of the major/minor highway onto the frontage roads. I need to double check that the street name didn't change in any places where that happened. But getting some feedback on the routing penalties/preferences for each road type out of Waze would be useful.
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