City polygon layer has updated (NA)

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Re: City polygon layer has updated (NA)

Postby jasonh300 » Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:18 pm

The city polygons have updated again. The couple of experimental things that I didn't want anymore in the area here are now gone, and then an inexperienced editor created a city right in the middle of New Orleans called "New" with a street created yesterday.

And D'Lberville is gone now...only about 10 hours after I removed it from the editor!
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Re: City polygon layer has updated (NA)

Postby skbun » Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:46 pm

jasonh300 wrote:The city polygons have updated again. The couple of experimental things that I didn't want anymore in the area here are now gone, and then an inexperienced editor created a city right in the middle of New Orleans called "New" with a street created yesterday.

And D'Lberville is gone now...only about 10 hours after I removed it from the editor!


Update, yay! (Goes to check his own changes...)

This is just me thinking out loud here...so this may be a completely silly idea anyway.

I wonder how bad it would really be if we DID lock the U.S. down to allowNewCities:no, and ask Waze to remove the sticky/uneditable/basemap city layer after that's done, so all cities are generated by segment hits. We're in a unique position in the United States, because cities were pulled in BY the basemap import. (In most countries, this was not the case, I think?)

- The rampant creation of false cities would end
- With the sticky layer gone, we can in practice delete unwanted cities by deleting all their segments

How cities are added after that, maybe Waze could help, if and when the time came? Locked down to high level editors, or something.
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On a different subject, granting it is completely impossible for us to get this information without scraping the United States ten square miles at a time, I wonder how hard it'd be for Waze to dump out a table that's like CityID---CityName---State---Country---Lat/Long of name put on map---*Number of assigned streets

* (Number of assigned streets is only practical if CityIDs are keyed in such a way that you can say 'Tell me streets associated with this CityID' in the database. Very helpful but not strictly necessary.)
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Re: City polygon layer has updated (NA)

Postby Scruffy151 » Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:43 pm

jasonh300 wrote:And D'Lberville is gone now...only about 10 hours after I removed it from the editor!


Yeah!!! One choice in the drop down menu.
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Re: City polygon layer has updated (NA)

Postby paulwelch23 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:05 am

jasonh300 wrote:
skbun wrote:The offending 'city' is 'M, Ohio'. If you scroll around the borders, especially with the help of the WME highlighting tool if you are an AM, you'll be able to identify and reassign those segments.


This update got rid of the cities of G and B, Misisssippi in the suburbs of Gulfport and Biloxi. I suspect we've all done this...probably more with city names that begin with letters that can be touch-typed with the left hand. I've never had it happen with more than one typed letter. (For New Orleans, I type "ew" and hit enter, Metairie, "et", Kenner "er", etc.")

We now have a multi-hundred, if not thousand square mile area of TN that is shown as "M, TN". This was created by (as best as I can tell) THREE segments. One in Murfreesboro, one in Mount Juliet, and one in Martin. This polygon covers the ENTIRE city of Nashville as well as many of of it major suburbs.

Great. Just great.

I got the segments in Murfreesboro and Mount Juliet fixed, but Martin in outside of my AM range. Can a CM fix this segment in Martin? Thanks in advance.

Maybe another update, Waze? Pretty please?
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Re: City polygon layer has updated (NA)

Postby jasonh300 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:07 am

paulwelch23 wrote:This polygon covers the ENTIRE city of Nashville as well as many of of it major suburbs.


Okay, I fixed that segment. Post here again when the "M" goes away. I've already fixed everything here and it's updated, so I'm curious to know if they're rebuilding the city polygons nightly or weekly or what.
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Re: City polygon layer has updated (NA)

Postby paulwelch23 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:10 am

jasonh300 wrote:Okay, I fixed that segment. Post here again when the "M" goes away. I've already fixed everything here and it's updated, so I'm curious to know if they're rebuilding the city polygons nightly or weekly or what.

Thanks, and I let you know. I'm very interested in this update schedule, too.
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Re: City polygon layer has updated (NA)

Postby yippeekyaa » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:33 pm

Had a similar situation in NC. 1 road with M. city in one location and 250 miles away was another one. It created a city layer about a mile wide and 250 miles long. I fixed the one I could last night and today the miles long M. city layer is now gone. Maybe they are recalculating the city layer nightly?
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Re: City polygon layer has updated (NA)

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:41 pm

yippeekyaa wrote:Maybe they are recalculating the city layer nightly?

Perhaps, though we've not heard. Frankly, I'd be happy with as often as the regular map updates, as changing the city layer which then possibly doesn't match the segment layer would be confusing.
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Re: City polygon layer has updated (NA)

Postby paulwelch23 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:37 pm

paulwelch23 wrote:
jasonh300 wrote:Okay, I fixed that segment. Post here again when the "M" goes away. I've already fixed everything here and it's updated, so I'm curious to know if they're rebuilding the city polygons nightly or weekly or what.

Thanks, and I let you know. I'm very interested in this update schedule, too.

I can confirm that the city layer has been updated and that this is fixed. Woo hoo!
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Re: City polygon layer has updated (NA)

Postby skbun » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:06 am

yippeekyaa wrote:Maybe they are recalculating the city layer nightly?


(You really don't want to know the digging I did over time to know all of this. Buuuuuuuut....)

Okay. So there is a gray cities layer, and a layer that shows names of cities for the gray layer. If memory serves me, they're 'cities_01' and 'cities_names'. As best I can reverse engineer, these are only generated at map tile generation time. They're used in the following ways:
Waze client (Android at least): BOTH
Waze Livemap: Only the placement of city names

You can verify this by checking for the presence of a city name in both the client and livemap, and you'll see they're always rendered in the same spots regardless of zoom.

There's another layer - the one WE call the 'city layer' in the context of WME. That's cities_p, with its own name layer that matches those polygons. It's rendered in multiple colors.

If the above is how this works, and Waze could tell us either way, right?, IMHO, it'd be to our advantage to have cities_p update as often as Waze will do it. Two big reasons:
1. The closer to real time this layer is run, the more often we can check the cities layer to see if smears have been resolved or new bogus cities have appeared - particularly if they increase the number of colors and boldness of borders to make them easier to see; and they may be caught/removed before they're ever even seen on the clients. But, especially,
2. I'm almost certain that 'The highlighted road is too far from the city it was added to' is dependant on the cities_p layer, not the one we see on the live map tiles. Put another way, if the city polygon layer for WME were run with each edit, we'd never have the 'M, Ohio covers half the state' problem ever again**. In any case, the more often it runs, the less we'll see it. I can happily add a fictitious 'T, California' on two segments, between saves, 150 miles away from one another, so this really leans toward 'It's about that multicolored polygon layer'. To me, it seems Waze doesn't know 'how far too far is' unless there's a polygon to check against.

Notes:
* Segments in this newly created city were touched on 11/23, after the newest tile update of 11/22. https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=3&lat ... FFTFTTTTFT
* Its polygon shape is visible in the multicolor layer, but not in the gray and 'City is here' layers of Livemap or clients, so it's a test case where the city exists in WME but not in the live client.
* If I try to add Rosewood a sufficiently far enough distance away from this location, I get the 'too far away' error.
* There was a WME map tile update less than 24 hours ago, which I know because another tiny city that had a small footprint got larger overnight based on edits I'd done yesterday.

** This is, of course, assuming Waze fixes the 'Too far from city isn't checked against alt streetnames as well as the primary' issue.
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