Natick, MA

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Natick, MA

Postby sockslabs » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:02 am

What's the right way of handling this "exit" ramp and the nearby UR?

(update: somebody has since removed the UR, but it complained about no notifications while exiting the pike onto Cochituate Rd)

https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=5&lat ... s=61992245

Even if I label the segment, "to Cochituate Rd", because it's a straight, thus a "continue", the client won't make any announcements. So I think the choices are:

1. introduce a very short 20 degree turn segment to in order to elicit a "bear left" instruction
or:
2. Label it anyway, even though it won't be announced.

Any other options?

Thanks,

-SocksLabs
Last edited by sockslabs on Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Natick, MA

Postby jondrush » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:16 pm

You could split the ramp so the entire ramp after the split is one piece. I don't make two-way ramps anywhere for just this reason.
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Re: Natick, MA

Postby AndyPoms » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:38 pm

jondrush wrote:You could split the ramp so the entire ramp after the split is one piece. I don't make two-way ramps anywhere for just this reason.
I was thinking the same thing... Entering and Exiting the Mass Pike (and any freeway) should be two separate ramps.
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Re: Natick, MA

Postby sockslabs » Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:50 am

I just checked all the pike exits between 95 and 290. Only 290 and 20 have separate ramps through the tolls, the rest suffer from the same problem. Also, some of the Millbury ramps are locked:

https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=4&lat ... 1,22938077

So, I-95, Natick, Framingham, I-495, and 122 Millbury would all need to be split. Probably more.

Are we sure this is a good idea?
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Re: Natick, MA

Postby jondrush » Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:07 am

Let's put it this way. You can make it work either way. But the easiest way to be sure of your work as an editor, splitting ramps is the way to go. Every extra junction that needs to be set with the correct turn restrictions, and checked for correct commands is another place for you, or a newb to screw up routing.

My life got a lot simpler when I stopped trying to make two-way ramps. :)
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Re: Natick, MA

Postby banished » Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:16 pm

Are we talking about having a different rule for splitting when it comes to ramps than for everything else?
http://www.waze.com/wiki/index.php/Best ... o-Way_Road

Yes, I get that there's an exception to every rule, but wondering if this qualifies. Nudging the angle of the I-90 E on-ramp here (https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=6&lat ... s=61706526) to get a keep left TTS control instruction has merit, but I think the subject deserves wider discussion before jumping off the "exception cliff."

I don't see any URs that indicate issues with things the way they are. On heavily traffic-ed roads, I rarely act upon a single UR, anyway. I prefer to see multiple similar URs because with a high-volume of traffic, one UR doesn't mean much, e.g., is the user complaining because s/he Waze isn't action as he'd like, or is there a real problem? Three similar URs have more significance, e.g., one is an aberration, two a coincidence, three a trend.
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Re: Natick, MA

Postby jondrush » Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:44 pm

Yep, an exception. But I see most experienced editors doing it already.
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Re: Natick, MA

Postby GizmoGuy411 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:56 pm

I split ramps when they have an actual physical divider, as I see them as logical extensions to freeways.

Also from a driver's perspective, I feel they are better represented as separate one-way roads.

I feel we should include the word "Ramp" in the Wiki.
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Re: Natick, MA

Postby harling » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:44 pm

I am an advocate of two-way ramps, when the situation warrants it. Here is one example:

Consider the case where you are exiting Route 128 SB and heading left (southeast) onto Grapevine Rd. At present, as you approach Grapevine Rd, you get one "turn left" instruction. When the two-way ramp was split into separate one-way ramps, the off-ramp would generate two left instructions: first a "keep left" where the ramp forks before it reaches Grapevine, and then a "turn left" at the end of the fork where it meets Grapevine Rd itself.

(I also have seen cases where inaccurate GPS hardware has had problems where one-way ramps run parallel, and close to each other, for long stretches.)

Un-splitting those ramps replaced four one-way segments with two two-way segments, made the geometry a lot cleaner, and eliminated the double turn instructions.

As for the complexity of turn restrictions: in cases such as the one cited by the OP, it isn't any simpler when four one-way ramps emanate from that junction southwest of the tolls--and the result is more junctions to check, not fewer.
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Re: Natick, MA

Postby AndyPoms » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:57 pm

harling wrote:I am an advocate of two-way ramps, when the situation warrants it. Here is one example:

Consider the case where you are exiting Route 128 SB and heading left (southeast) onto Grapevine Rd. At present, as you approach Grapevine Rd, you get one "turn left" instruction. When the two-way ramp was split into separate one-way ramps, the off-ramp would generate two left instructions: first a "keep left" where the ramp forks before it reaches Grapevine, and then a "turn left" at the end of the fork where it meets Grapevine Rd itself.

(I also have seen cases where inaccurate GPS hardware has had problems where one-way ramps run parallel, and close to each other, for long stretches.)

Un-splitting those ramps replaced four one-way segments with two two-way segments, made the geometry a lot cleaner, and eliminated the double turn instructions.

As for the complexity of turn restrictions: in cases such as the one cited by the OP, it isn't any simpler when four one-way ramps emanate from that junction southwest of the tolls--and the result is more junctions to check, not fewer.


That double instruction can be eliminated by tweaking the angles involved where the ramp joins Grapevine Rd. This at-grade connector (https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=7&lat=41.73866&lon=-72.66051&layers=BTTFFTTTFTTTTTTTTTTTTFT&segments=57915078) used to give a "Keep Right" & "Turn Right" instruction, but a simple tweak to the geometry (easing the join angle) it now gives just a "Keep Right" instruction before the connector. Works the same way with ramps.
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