Late audible turn instructions

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Re: Late audible turn instructions

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:26 pm

Almost every turn will give 3 warnings., From my experience, I think this is roughly accurate:

1. The last one at the turn/stay happens all the time.
2. The middle one is either at .1mi or .25mi depending on speed/distance
3. The first ones are either at .5mi, .6mi or 1mi depending on speed

The number of warnings is also distance-dependent. If I make a turn and my next turn is .25mi away, I am going to get 2 warnings, not three.
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Re: Late audible turn instructions

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:52 am

Why are these three segments 1-way? I see no advantage to parallel 1-way segments. It would be simpler and just as effective to use 2-way segments here.
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Re: Late audible turn instructions

Postby CBenson » Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:24 pm

I had originally thought that the different streets were needed to have the different names in the different directions. But upon looking again in light of your question, it does appear that two two-way segments with the two different names would work.
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Re: Late audible turn instructions

Postby OldGnome » Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:29 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:Almost every turn will give 3 warnings., From my experience, I think this is roughly accurate:

1. The last one at the turn/stay happens all the time.
2. The middle one is either at .1mi or .25mi depending on speed/distance
3. The first ones are either at .5mi, .6mi or 1mi depending on speed

The number of warnings is also distance-dependent. If I make a turn and my next turn is .25mi away, I am going to get 2 warnings, not three.

I can confirm my experience matches this.
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Late audible turn instructions

Postby rottielover » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:10 pm

I was looking at the wiki : http://www.waze.com/wiki/index.php/At-Grade_Connectors

Specifically that : "when the area is "busy" enough that the driver may not get any advance warning that a turn is coming up--in which case a connector lets you notify the driver a little earlier"

I have a good example. : https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=6&lat ... s=69802438

I drive this route every day to work, and I have yet to have the app give me the warning to get into the right lane in time, I assume because the lane that exits you onto the highway starts more than 200 meters/yards from the actual turn you make (combined with the 40mph speed limit).

So I added a longer segment ramp. After the server tiles update I drove this way and still did not get the turn warning until well after the intersection at brown rd to the north.

So I re-did the segment to what you see currently, hoping that would cause the client to warn drivers a little sooner that they need to get over.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen people in the left lane prior to the brown intersection, try and shoot over 3 lanes to go S on the highway. It's also a busy area during the morning rush hours. To make matters worse when you drive this section of road the proper turn lane to go S on the highway looks like an acceleration lane for the apartment complex, then immediately looks as though it's a lane to get into the car lot. Instead it continues on up the curved hill to the exit lane.

My goal is to have the client give the turn/lane instruction prior to the brown rd intersection

Is this the proper way to make this segment so that the client will give an earlier lane instruction?
Where can I find a better explanation of how the client gives instructions based on what it "sees" on the map?

Use Case: user is navigating to South I-270 and is driving in the left lane of McDonnell Blvd prior to Brown rd. I think the client should be giving a "get in" or "stay in" "the right lane" instruction just prior to the brown rd intersection, and then giving the exit right instruction after the brown rd intersection.
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Re: Late audible turn instructions

Postby rottielover » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:34 pm

Ran out and drove a loop just to get data. This time I got the following:

at approx Intersection of Dunn and Howdershell : "In 1/2 a mile get ready to turn right"
while going thru the intersection at Howdershell and Brown : "In 0.1 miles make a right"

So it's much better now than last time.

Interestingly enough, I while going back home I was on N Hwy 67 (Lindbergh) and headed to a left on Lindsay lane. i got the 1/2 mile instruction, but I also got a "in 1/4 of a mile" instruction. So that turn, I got 3 instructions, but the one above only 2 instructions.

On this loop trip I went N on 270 and exited to Lindbergh/67 via the new off ramps, I got "spammed" voice instructions to keep left / turn left on 67 (lost count of #'s of instructions).

I'm still very much interested in finding in the wiki or other source info on how Waze app determines what instructions to give, the only thing I can find is: http://www.waze.com/wiki/index.php/How_ ... _maneuvers

Given this short "loop test drive" It was an inconsistent user experience.
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Re: Late audible turn instructions

Postby rottielover » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:50 pm

Makes perfect sense to me, thank you!

Any other opinions before I update this area?
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Re: Late audible turn instructions

Postby rottielover » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:57 pm

Really good example, thanks!
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Re: Late audible turn instructions

Postby skbun » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:30 pm

I know how I would handle this, myself... look at this permalink.

https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=8&lat ... TTTFTTTTFT

Do you see where the line goes from dashed to solid? That in theory is where the right turn 'really begins', because in theory you're supposed to be committed by then.

Here's how I solve that problem:

https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=9&lat ... TTTFTTTTFT

I create a right angle turn at the point of no return - that is, where a dashed turn lane becomes solid and you are now committed to either 'straight' or 'turn'. (Alas, I can't find a good example of BOTH right now). But what I would do in your case is create a right angle at the 2m resolution, so that the TTS instruction is 'take a right', at the point at which you must be in that lane. It doesn't actually matter if the turn is 1000 feet later, because either you're there or you're not. That ensures that both the instruction is correct according to signs they'd see upcoming, and that they get it early enough. And if there are MORE signs, saying like, 'First St ->', then I'll make that 'ramp'/'slip road'/whatever say 'to First St'. It just makes it understandable. It's then 'Take a right to First St'', rather than 'Take a right at First St', which may again be 1000 feet away still.
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Re: Late audible turn instructions

Postby skbun » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:05 pm

I found a better example to describe what I'm after, here.

https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=8&lat ... TTTFTTTTFT

So if you're travelling south on Admiral Way, you'll get to a set of overhead signs indicating complicated directions coming up. The rightmost one of them shows an arrow down to the right lane, and says 'to SW Avalon Way'.

At the 'point of no return' for that turnoff, I split the road off so that the TTS instruction is 'stay to the right to SW Avalon Way' - which it will warn for and give before that point, of course. It doesn't matter that ultimately the person will be taking a right turn onto 30th Ave SW; the point is to give them guidance according to the signs they have in front of them.

Once they are ON 'to SW Avalon way', then their next instruction will in fact be 'Take a right on 30th Ave SW - and then, take a left on SW Manning St' - and that's what the regular sized street signs say there.

The point of all of this is, you can use things like the angle at which a turnoff comes off to influence the instruction, as well as give instructions in TTS where an intersection is confusing - because the 'road they're turning on' would have no name anyway. What I do with those turnoffs is - if early warning signs are present, tell the user to 'stay to the right/left/whatever at (What the previous overhead sign told them is coming up).

No user's phone GPS really has resolution better than about 5m anyway, so closer in than that, you can just turn roads and angles to fit TTS needs.
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