Late audible turn instructions

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Re: Re: Late audible turn instructions

Postby skbun » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:16 am

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:Why are these three segments 1-way? I see no advantage to parallel 1-way segments. It would be simpler and just as effective to use 2-way segments here.


Oh geez, THAT one. Guilty! :) The reason I did it like this in the first place was because it was brought to my attention by a an automated missing road UR with the wideness of Admiral Way/the slip roads on this god awful intersection. I started simple, and these get more complex when I check all paths to be sure directions in and out make an ounce of sense, and also won't recalculate to another (wrong) segment.

On a field trip, I found that turn instructions to and from these roads had nothing to do with their actual road names. EVERYTHING signed inbound is 'to blah blah blah', not the street names you are in fact turning onto which aren't visible. Zoom into 2m and you'll see some angles put in solely for reasonable TTS.

FWIW, not one UR since I changed all of this, so I hope it's giving people what they need to get through, anyway.

Sadly, I've seen even worse than this elsewhere in Seattle metro. Mmm.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
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Re: Late audible turn instructions

Postby CBenson » Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:24 pm

I had originally thought that the different streets were needed to have the different names in the different directions. But upon looking again in light of your question, it does appear that two two-way segments with the two different names would work.
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Re: Late audible turn instructions

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:52 am

Why are these three segments 1-way? I see no advantage to parallel 1-way segments. It would be simpler and just as effective to use 2-way segments here.
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Re: Late audible turn instructions

Postby rottielover » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:57 pm

Really good example, thanks!
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Re: Late audible turn instructions

Postby skbun » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:05 pm

I found a better example to describe what I'm after, here.

https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=8&lat ... TTTFTTTTFT

So if you're travelling south on Admiral Way, you'll get to a set of overhead signs indicating complicated directions coming up. The rightmost one of them shows an arrow down to the right lane, and says 'to SW Avalon Way'.

At the 'point of no return' for that turnoff, I split the road off so that the TTS instruction is 'stay to the right to SW Avalon Way' - which it will warn for and give before that point, of course. It doesn't matter that ultimately the person will be taking a right turn onto 30th Ave SW; the point is to give them guidance according to the signs they have in front of them.

Once they are ON 'to SW Avalon way', then their next instruction will in fact be 'Take a right on 30th Ave SW - and then, take a left on SW Manning St' - and that's what the regular sized street signs say there.

The point of all of this is, you can use things like the angle at which a turnoff comes off to influence the instruction, as well as give instructions in TTS where an intersection is confusing - because the 'road they're turning on' would have no name anyway. What I do with those turnoffs is - if early warning signs are present, tell the user to 'stay to the right/left/whatever at (What the previous overhead sign told them is coming up).

No user's phone GPS really has resolution better than about 5m anyway, so closer in than that, you can just turn roads and angles to fit TTS needs.
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Re: Late audible turn instructions

Postby rottielover » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:50 pm

Makes perfect sense to me, thank you!

Any other opinions before I update this area?
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Re: Late audible turn instructions

Postby skbun » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:30 pm

I know how I would handle this, myself... look at this permalink.

https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=8&lat ... TTTFTTTTFT

Do you see where the line goes from dashed to solid? That in theory is where the right turn 'really begins', because in theory you're supposed to be committed by then.

Here's how I solve that problem:

https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=9&lat ... TTTFTTTTFT

I create a right angle turn at the point of no return - that is, where a dashed turn lane becomes solid and you are now committed to either 'straight' or 'turn'. (Alas, I can't find a good example of BOTH right now). But what I would do in your case is create a right angle at the 2m resolution, so that the TTS instruction is 'take a right', at the point at which you must be in that lane. It doesn't actually matter if the turn is 1000 feet later, because either you're there or you're not. That ensures that both the instruction is correct according to signs they'd see upcoming, and that they get it early enough. And if there are MORE signs, saying like, 'First St ->', then I'll make that 'ramp'/'slip road'/whatever say 'to First St'. It just makes it understandable. It's then 'Take a right to First St'', rather than 'Take a right at First St', which may again be 1000 feet away still.
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Re: Late audible turn instructions

Postby OldGnome » Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:29 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:Almost every turn will give 3 warnings., From my experience, I think this is roughly accurate:

1. The last one at the turn/stay happens all the time.
2. The middle one is either at .1mi or .25mi depending on speed/distance
3. The first ones are either at .5mi, .6mi or 1mi depending on speed

The number of warnings is also distance-dependent. If I make a turn and my next turn is .25mi away, I am going to get 2 warnings, not three.

I can confirm my experience matches this.
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Re: Late audible turn instructions

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:26 pm

Almost every turn will give 3 warnings., From my experience, I think this is roughly accurate:

1. The last one at the turn/stay happens all the time.
2. The middle one is either at .1mi or .25mi depending on speed/distance
3. The first ones are either at .5mi, .6mi or 1mi depending on speed

The number of warnings is also distance-dependent. If I make a turn and my next turn is .25mi away, I am going to get 2 warnings, not three.
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Re: Late audible turn instructions

Postby rottielover » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:34 pm

Ran out and drove a loop just to get data. This time I got the following:

at approx Intersection of Dunn and Howdershell : "In 1/2 a mile get ready to turn right"
while going thru the intersection at Howdershell and Brown : "In 0.1 miles make a right"

So it's much better now than last time.

Interestingly enough, I while going back home I was on N Hwy 67 (Lindbergh) and headed to a left on Lindsay lane. i got the 1/2 mile instruction, but I also got a "in 1/4 of a mile" instruction. So that turn, I got 3 instructions, but the one above only 2 instructions.

On this loop trip I went N on 270 and exited to Lindbergh/67 via the new off ramps, I got "spammed" voice instructions to keep left / turn left on 67 (lost count of #'s of instructions).

I'm still very much interested in finding in the wiki or other source info on how Waze app determines what instructions to give, the only thing I can find is: http://www.waze.com/wiki/index.php/How_ ... _maneuvers

Given this short "loop test drive" It was an inconsistent user experience.
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