Using service roads to connect highways

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Using service roads to connect highways

Postby andrewkjs » Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:25 am

I'd appreciate any advice or opinions from the editors here:

Permalink: https://world.waze.com/editor/?zoom=6&l ... =104096874 (Edit: Fixed the permalink)

This is a multi-tier interchange between two major highways. Previously, the segments that connected the two highways (that are now set as Service Road type) used to be ramps as per my understanding of the best map editing practices for segments that connect different grade highways. And even if there are same grade connectors, service roads still are not the right road type.

I've spoken with the CM who changed and locked the ramps to service roads and he says that the guideline is that service roads should be used for roads "connecting the highway to other roads through a junction or a series of different sorts of junctions" and that these junctions are same grade (I know this interchange well and they are not the same grade).

I think this guideline, which I've never seen used in any other country, is wrong. Even if they are same grade connectors, service roads are still not the correct type to be used here http://www.waze.com/wiki/index.php/At-Grade_Connectors. Service roads would also introduce problems such as the names of the service roads appearing on the map (since ramp names are not displayed) and the unknown effect on routing penalties when multiple road types are used to connect highways.

I was wondering what the other experienced editors here think. I'll point the CM to this thread so that he can respond.
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Re: Using service roads to connect highways

Postby andrewkjs » Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:09 am

jasonh300 wrote:
petervdveen wrote:Btw what is this cross for?
https://world.waze.com/editor/?zoom=7&l ... ,164764286


Looks like it allows people to turn right, but not go straight or make U-Turns. It looks like cars are allowed to go straight, but maybe there's no reason to route like that and it prevents offramp to onramp routing.

This is exactly the reason the cross streets are there, which i edited and categorized as ramps before it was switched to service roads. There are plastic barriers in place at that cross junction positioned in a way to force drivers to make a turn right to the connecting highway and not go straight or u-turn.

The point raised about service roads affecting long-distance routing is a good one, and it didn't occur to me before.

As for the local guidelines, there is a FAQ in a FB group (which I need to get around to porting over to the Waze wiki so that it's accessible to anyone without a FB account), there is this statement for ramps:

5) Ramps
When traffic moves between two roads or highways that are at different grades without the use of traffic lights or stop signs, they use ramps. The typical example is the on-ramps or off-ramps of a highway. Roads connecting a highway with a rest/service/parking area should be treated as ramps as well and named accordingly (e.g. "Exit to Service Area").
When traffic moves between two roads that are at the same grade, these connecting segments are not technically ramps to Waze. These cases should be treated as At-Grade Connectors. Access roads to highways at the same grade are service roads (see below)

Only exception from the above rule of Same-Grade-Connector should be a ramp if it's a signed, numbered exit of a highway (like Exit 116 Rawang on E1 North-South Expressway (NSE Northern Route).

The bolded sentence is probably the guideline being used here. It implies that roads that connect highways at the same grade should be service roads, which I don't agree with.

The section about service roads is not too different from the standard wiki.
7) Service Roads
These are streets that are typically adjacent to a freeway (or major highway). Also called Frontage roads in some states. These could be access roads to the highway itself, but have the property of a regular or primary street.

Service Roads is also used for 1 lane wide kampung (village) road with tarmac but poorly maintained with lots of potholes n bumps but still accessible by all vehicles. Roads paved with crasher runs must use Dirt Road / 4x4 Trail
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Re: Using service roads to connect highways

Postby andrewkjs » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:24 am

fvwazing, bgodette and everyone else, thanks for the advice and pointers, especially the tip about simplifying the left & right split from the same node. I'll need to keep this in mind in my future edits. And it looks like the use of service roads shouldn't be different from the rest of the world.

The CM a4xrbj1 just posted a note in our group that he's traveling and not able to attend to unlock requests right now. I've posted an unlock request here http://world.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=265&t=36561 and I'll start updating the roads once they have been unlocked.
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Re: Using service roads to connect highways

Postby bgodette » Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:09 am

For what it's worth, I think the whole bit about "frontage roads" is unnecessary. Service roads are the red-headed step-child of Types as they're effectively unneeded as far as Routing is concerned (they behave as Street or Primary, not definitive yet) and only serve to cause confusion like this thread.

Every place I've seen them used for frontage roads running parallel to highways, the better used Type in terms of making the map visually make sense is Primary. For local-access roads for expressways, Street works (you're accessing residential streets with it). Using Service Road for alleys and delivery access is just plain the wrong Type in terms of Waze's routing, Parking Lot is better suited as #1 you don't want general routing over those segments, and #2 drivers stop/idle on them.
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Using service roads to connect highways

Postby fvwazing » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:59 pm

Pfffft... this setup is going to make nobody happy. Over a longer distance (>20km?) you will probably never get routed from one highway to another over serviceroads. Maybe you will, but only because other crossings are a mess as well. As a rule of the thumb highways (freeways, major, minor, ramps) should connect to highways without surfacestreets between them.
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Re: Using service roads to connect highways

Postby fvwazing » Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:34 am

Ah, yes, the "inner cross". Hardly recognizable here, with the U-turn-curves ahead of the crossing and the missing of straight-thru. 46m for the diagonal distance IS huge for a setup like that, but from what I see all the connections are right. I see room for further simplification by taking these segments out and calling the split to left or right from the same node. Connectionwise it is pretty much sane as it is.

But the type: surface-streets, be it plain streets, service or primary, are definately second choice. Make it all ramps or stretches of minor. Going north parallel to the E11 is another matter, it runs forever parallel but does not offer a connection to the major until the next big crossing is reached after a mile or so. Primary will do there, as it is clearly not preferred that cars go from the E10 to E11 in north direction or else there would have been an on-ramp very close to the crossing in question. But it must be something bigger than street with all those primarystreets connected to it. It could do with a different streetname as well or else the trafficjam-reports are indistinguishable from those on the major E11, if you do not have a different name available call it "parallel to E11".
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Re: Using service roads to connect highways

Postby gerben » Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:27 am

Have you never seen them before Peter? fvwazing has used this contstruction in NL at several places...
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Re: Using service roads to connect highways

Postby harling » Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:48 pm

According to the Road Types Guide (this is specific to the U.S., but other guides exist for other countries), a "Service road" is:

  • Also often known as a frontage road.
  • A smaller street found running alongside a limited access highway or other primary street.
  • Service roads allow local traffic to enter and exit driveways, parking lots, and intersecting streets without congesting thoroughfare traffic.

Specifically absent is any mention of connecting one highway to another--that is what Ramps are for. Service roads are surface streets that run parallel to highways.
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Re: Using service roads to connect highways

Postby jasonh300 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:28 pm

Service roads, as far as we can tell, function as a Primary Street. IOW, long distance routing won't use them at all. Being that it's grade-separated, ramps, ugly as they may be on the map, may be the best option. The only other option would be to use a highway type, but since they display as a thick line on the map, it'll make the map unreadable.
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Re: Using service roads to connect highways

Postby jasonh300 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:09 pm

petervdveen wrote:Btw what is this cross for?
https://world.waze.com/editor/?zoom=7&l ... ,164764286


Looks like it allows people to turn right, but not go straight or make U-Turns. It looks like cars are allowed to go straight, but maybe there's no reason to route like that and it prevents offramp to onramp routing.
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