Highway Off-Ramp Segment Question

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Highway Off-Ramp Segment Question

Postby hmarian » Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:59 am

Hello,

I had some ongoing discussion with EECGeek about some of his recent edits that includes saving the tip of the highway off-ramp connection to a two way parallel road segments as a street, vs. continuation of the ramp.
He says that he is convinced that he read it somewhere in the forum, that this is how the end of the off-ramp should be, but since he couldn't refer me to the source, I'm asking those of you who know the answer to come and help us figure this out.

See the two examples below and please tell us which of the two is the right way connecting the tip of the off-ramp to the road.

Example 1

Example 2

Thanks,
Hagay.

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Re: Highway Off-Ramp Segment Question

Postby andrewkjs » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:10 am

The route that goes from ramp -> street -> minor highway (https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=6&lat ... 3,60185374) might not work over long-distance routing, since Waze will try to stick to highway-type segments over a long distance. At least, this is what I understand from another forum post. Perhaps other experienced editors can chime in here.
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Re: Highway Off-Ramp Segment Question

Postby CBenson » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:04 pm

I agree with Andrew. Don't use street segments, use ramp or the same class of highway as the split road. So I would say Example 2 is better.
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Re: Highway Off-Ramp Segment Question

Postby rottielover » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:28 pm

mapcat bow tie?
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Re: Highway Off-Ramp Segment Question

Postby andrewkjs » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:39 pm

rottielover wrote:mapcat bow tie?

I don't think that's going to be necessary here. Bow ties are used to stop u-turns on cross junctions, but on t-junctions, you can set up the turn restrictions in a way to stop the u-turns from happening, which is already being done here.
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Re: Highway Off-Ramp Segment Question

Postby rottielover » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:57 pm

andrewkjs wrote:
rottielover wrote:mapcat bow tie?

I don't think that's going to be necessary here. Bow ties are used to stop u-turns on cross junctions, but on t-junctions, you can set up the turn restrictions in a way to stop the u-turns from happening, which is already being done here.


That is one benefit, but the other benefit is allowing you to connect split roads to singles using a single junction point. It's just a thought.

Edit, I took a 2nd look. The turn restrictions are such that you can make a U-Turn if you were heading South on Keele and came to this "T" segment. (example 1). From the aerial image it doesn't look like a u turn would be allowed there, but I have no familiarity with Canada, you'd have to tell me if you would be allowed a U-Turn there. *IF* not, then the bow tie method would allow you to suppress any U-turns, and bring all the segments to one junction. Again it's just a thought, and I have no idea about the U-Turns at that location.
Last edited by rottielover on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Highway Off-Ramp Segment Question

Postby hmarian » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:14 pm

Could someone explain the concept of bow ties and how is it related to the question asked?

Any other thoughts so we could reach conclusion on this?

Thanks,
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Re: Highway Off-Ramp Segment Question

Postby HandOfMadness » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:26 pm

hmarian wrote:Could someone explain the concept of bow ties


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Re: Highway Off-Ramp Segment Question

Postby hmarian » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:49 pm

So what is the conclusion?
Using example 1 or example 2?

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Re: Highway Off-Ramp Segment Question

Postby ottonomy » Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:46 pm

It seemed to me that the early consensus in this thread was that example 2 was better for routing purposes. Obviously, if U-turns are specifically allowed on the minor highway there at the intersection of the ramp, then a small two-way section would be needed there.

Since your question about the applicability of bow-ties is still up was the air, I thought I would take the time to confirm my own thoughts on that. I created some temporary example roads out in the sticks, so I could fiddle with turn restrictions and make useful screenshots without possibly messing up someone's hard work.

As andrewkjs said, a bow-tie is not necessary at a T-junction for controlling U-turns.

The off-ramp segments have permission to make their turns onto the highway:
Intersections12.jpg
Intersections12.jpg (40.03 KiB) Viewed 387 times


The southbound segment of the highway can have a left turn restriction to prevent it from using the short ramp segment to make a U-turn, but if it's not a T-junction, and another street is inline with the ramp, then the southbound highway segment needs permission to turn left onto that street. The median segment has to allow a lefthand turn going north, because that is one of the allowed turns from the off-ramp. So now you have potential U-turn routing from the map, and no way to prohibit it without also limiting a legal left turn:
Intersections34.jpg
Intersections34.jpg (40.56 KiB) Viewed 387 times


Enter the mapcat bow-tie. With it in place, you can give the off-ramp segment and the highway segments all the turn permissions they need, but specifically restrict U-turns where applicable:
Intersections56.jpg
Intersections56.jpg (40.59 KiB) Viewed 387 times


Does this make sense?
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