Contribution frustrated in Mountain View, CA

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Contribution frustrated in Mountain View, CA

Postby RoyaltyWoody » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:42 pm

I'm a rather new user, and have been enjoying using Waze for a couple of weeks. Been learning about editing, and thought I'd start with a mostly harmless area: a local shopping center and its parking lot.

I've now tried a few times to add in the parking lot roads (one time I made the mistake of adding in all the lanes, but the other times I've JUST added the main paths - entrance/exits, paths in front of stores, and the "back" roads that are commonly used and evidenced in the GPS tracks), but every time I add the roads, most, if not all of my work gets deleted. I've also tried adding some of the businesses - a bank, a couple of grocery stores, etc. - but those too have been deleted, or re-purposed.

The last time my work was re-purposed, one of the landmarks (I think it was the bank) was moved and changed to "Professional Panhandler"!

Questions:
Is there any way to tell if my work is being deleted by a prankster vs an experienced Wazer? (I'm content to concede to those who are trying to truly help the community, but would like to "win" the battle(s) over pranksters who are jokingly or not, vandalizing work. Or put another way, I want to contribute helpful edits, but am starting to get frustrated with doing and redoing the same thing, only to be deleted.)

What are considered best-practices for determining which Landmarks are appropriate? (I haven't found that (yet) in the Wiki.)

The area I've been working on (with the Panhandler - recently re-added) is: https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=5&lat ... rks=598053

Thanks in advance for your help!

Dave
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Re: Contribution frustrated in Mountain View, CA

Postby RoyaltyWoody » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:47 pm

One more note:
In that permalink, the back roads and alternate entrances/exits have (once again) been deleted.
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Re: Contribution frustrated in Mountain View, CA

Postby bscharff » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:50 pm

Waze has instructed us specifically to NOT landmark businesses. Only schools and parks and the like.
As for him deleting your parking lot roads... some editors have a habit of "if it was done bad, delete it and do it right." But since someone is outright deleting it, you might wanna have a level 5 lock it once you're done creating it... just to have the last word :P
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Re: Contribution frustrated in Mountain View, CA

Postby rottielover » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:52 pm

If you find a segment you created (your user in the created by), and it has been redone, then the last person to have touched it's username will be in the "updated by" field. Send them a PM here in the forums and ask if they are deleting your work, and if so why?

Professional panhandler landmark, seems... odd.
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Re: Contribution frustrated in Mountain View, CA

Postby AndyPoms » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:55 pm

DaveHolzmann wrote:Is there any way to tell if my work is being deleted by a prankster vs an experienced Wazer? (I'm content to concede to those who are trying to truly help the community, but would like to "win" the battle(s) over pranksters who are jokingly or not, vandalizing work. Or put another way, I want to contribute helpful edits, but am starting to get frustrated with doing and redoing the same thing, only to be deleted.)
The way that parking lot is set up right now looks pretty good to me. If you look at the "Created By" & Updated By" fields, you will notice that the editors name have a number in parentheses next to it - this is the user's editing rank. You are both level 1 editors - meaning you are either both new or have not taken steps to be promoted as an editor (promotions are not automatic nor guaranteed). Have you tried reaching out to the user who is making these changes (they updated the gas station and created the panhandler) via PM here in the forum?

DaveHolzmann wrote:What are considered best-practices for determining which Landmarks are appropriate? (I haven't found that (yet) in the Wiki.)
Right now the basic guideline is to not map individual businesses. This explains the disappearance of the banks, grocery stores, etc. A more complete set of guidelines in on the way. As for the gas station in your permalink - there is a lot of back-end work going on with gas stations and right now we're only putting the brand in the name field & leaving the description blank. Please note that to get the address (City) properties to save, you have to create the landmark, save it, then edit address and save again (known bug).
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Re: Contribution frustrated in Mountain View, CA

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:57 pm

My pet peeve: Phyllis Ave should not be split. Doesn't fit the guidelines.

The the parking lot roads to the rear certainly are valid. There's also two front-side PLot entrances which look to be needed still, too.
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Re: Contribution frustrated in Mountain View, CA

Postby RoyaltyWoody » Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:16 am

Thank you all for your helpful input.

Per your comments, I've deleted the non-gas-station businesses. I'll look into correcting my gas station additions as I have time... to make sure I get them right.

As for Phyllis Ave. split... mea culpa. That was a (brief) venture I took to try to go beyond the parking lot. It was accepted before I learned the guidelines for not splitting a road. (I had figured, since there was a serious barrier between the two lanes of traffic, it made sense to split it, and clarify where/why side streets/drives would/wouldn't be able to make certain turns. I had not read the Wiki about split roads, and had failed to consider the lack of accuracy of GPS tracking. At this point, it seems like it would be more work to un-split it. And, unless there are any URs that I made errors in allowed/disallowed turns, I wonder if it should be changed.

Regarding the back-of-buildings parking lot roads... I'm thinking I'll try again to create the main ones. And also three of the entrances/exits... two to Phyllis Ave., and one to Pamela Dr. The other ones that lead to/from Grant Rd. would be problematic in that they would necessitate adding more (minor) parking lot roads/lanes which would likely create confusion.
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Re: Contribution frustrated in Mountain View, CA

Postby gettingthere » Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:03 pm

I don't think anyone from Waze ever said not to map POI's. It was the Waze community's recommendation not to map POI's in the Waze map if your country has good POI data via the other search options in the client (Google, Bing, FourSquare, Yelp, etc.)

Here is why POI's should generally not be mapped in the Waze Map Editor:

* There is no ability to add POI details that show in the client with a search - phone number, address, etc.
* Since there is no ability to add these details it makes it difficult to determine which location you want to go to for common searches. Eg. if you search for McDonalds is it helpful to see the street address in the search results to help you determine which location you want to go to. Also very helpful to click on the phone number if you want to call to see if the POI is open, etc. The external providers POI data contains these details.
* If some editors are mapping some POI's, these POI's will show up in the default Waze search results even if they are hundreds or thousands of miles away. Eg, if someone adds a POI for McDonalds in Oregon and I am searching in San Diego my Waze client shows me the location in Oregon in the Waze results instead of showing one of the better options that shows relevant data.
* POI's that are added need to be maintained. Restaurants, stores, etc are always changing. If the POI is added and it changes, the data is wrong until someone finds and edits it. There are already great sources of this data that are being updated, why do we need yet another source of POI data?

Really in countries such as the USA only Parks and large POI landmarks that should show in the client map view should be mapped. Leave the rest out.

Again, this may not be relevant for other counties that don't have good POI data via the other providers.
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Contribution frustrated in Mountain View, CA

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:55 pm

Dave, post back if you want a CM to lock the segments.


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Re: Contribution frustrated in Mountain View, CA

Postby kentsmith9 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:00 am

DaveHolzmann wrote:As for Phyllis Ave. split... mea culpa. That was a (brief) venture I took to try to go beyond the parking lot. It was accepted before I learned the guidelines for not splitting a road. (I had figured, since there was a serious barrier between the two lanes of traffic, it made sense to split it, and clarify where/why side streets/drives would/wouldn't be able to make certain turns. I had not read the Wiki about split roads, and had failed to consider the lack of accuracy of GPS tracking. At this point, it seems like it would be more work to un-split it. And, unless there are any URs that I made errors in allowed/disallowed turns, I wonder if it should be changed.

Hey Dave, thanks for jumping into the editing world. We can use more editors in the west bay so keep it up.

As for split roads, I went down the same path as you in my home town when I started editing. I have since learned some of the pros and cons of split roads and we have a pretty good summary in the Wiki (that I think you have now read). Since I cover this area as well, I often run into new editors who see split roads like this and assume that is the correct style especially if it was edited very recently. Many base map imports in 2009 for the US included split roads where we no longer recommend them, so it is easier to explain to people those roads just have not been converted to dual-lane segments. I hope you don't mind, but I took the liberty of returning your changes and the others on the other side of El Camino (from the base map import) so we don't confuse new users.

I noticed some turn restrictions on the main parking lot out to Grant Rd that I have not seen when I was there last, so I corrected them. https://www.waze.com/editor/?zoom=8&lat ... s=70646117
If something has changed in that intersection not reflected on the latest map view please correct my error.

Keep up the great work.
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