Good lord...a sea of orange.

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Re: Good lord...a sea of orange.

Postby PhantomSoul » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:51 pm

I could - I just thought it looked dumb.

The real problem is the town/township issue where in many places the individual towns within a township are better known than the township itself. But if political boundaries are that important, I guess I could just use official municipality names.

Does this also mean that all 5 boroughs of New York City should just say "New York?" That hardly sounds right in Queens, for example, where everyone commonly refers to the neighborhood names, including the post office?
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Re: Good lord...a sea of orange.

Postby skapur1 » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:41 am

PhantomSoul wrote:I could - I just thought it looked dumb.

The real problem is the town/township issue where in many places the individual towns within a township are better known than the township itself. But if political boundaries are that important, I guess I could just use official municipality names.

Does this also mean that all 5 boroughs of New York City should just say "New York?" That hardly sounds right in Queens, for example, where everyone commonly refers to the neighborhood names, including the post office?

I think different parts of the country have different opinions.

I was under the impression that local usage wins in Waze. In NYC metro area (including Long Island and NJ), zip codes are much more meaningful as are the boroughs. In other areas where local government is more united it may be different.

As I have said before we have several governmental organizations on Long Island (Town tax department, Town highway department, Water authority, Power Authority, Fire district, school district, Census bureau, Election commission, Post Office ...) each with their own different boundary for the same locality on their own GIS systems.

People on this forum insist on using a government boundary. My question is: Which of the above governments boundary should we use?

I vote for the Post Office zip code for the Long Island and New Jersey area. Other areas with a more united government should pick other ways to define boundaries.
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Re: Good lord...a sea of orange.

Postby jasonh300 » Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:16 am

Remember this is a GPS app for drivers, not for mailing letters. Zip codes are useless to drivers, especially if they're not local to the area.
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Re: Good lord...a sea of orange.

Postby skapur1 » Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:56 am

jasonh300 wrote:Remember this is a GPS app for drivers, not for mailing letters. Zip codes are useless to drivers, especially if they're not local to the area.

As I said, it is VERY location dependent. In some areas of the country zip codes are useless. Up here with fragmented governments coming up with their own and different political boundaries FOR THE SAME LOCALITY, zip codes (not the number but the town name associated with one) are about the only thing close to a standard that exists.
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Re: Good lord...a sea of orange.

Postby PhantomSoul » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:25 pm

Also, it's not so much the zip code itself (I think we're putting too much emphasis on that in this discussion) as it is about the city name the post office uses with those zip codes. That's what city names the vast majority of New Jersey is known by, and contrary to other parts of the country, those city names do not change frequently because they are so well colloquially known.

If we're going to go strictly by municipal names, then I would at least put the word "Township" at the end of township names here in New Jersey, especially the ones that are better known by their local member town names, e.g. South Brunswick Township instead of Monmouth Junction, or Woodbridge Township instead of Colonia.

Does anyone know if there are any plans to make the Twp abbreviation readable as Township? It is an official abbreviation used by the state all over the place. Last time I checked, the Waze TTS did not read Twp correctly.

Another thing I've noticed recently about NJ: the state's official signage along highways only marks officially incorporated municipalities. In other words, they tell you you're entering South Brunswick Township, but there is no official state sign anywhere telling you you're entering or otherwise approaching Monmouth Junction, a member town within South Brunswick Township that the area is better known by. Same thing with Woodbridge Township - there is no official state "Entering Colonia" sign anywhere. Member towns like Monmouth Junction or Colonia do however appear on official highway directional signs, such as those at intersections or exit signs, etc.
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Re: Good lord...a sea of orange.

Postby jondrush » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:11 pm

skapur1 wrote: I was under the impression that local usage wins in Waze. In NYC metro area (including Long Island and NJ), zip codes are much more meaningful as are the boroughs. In other areas where local government is more united it may be different.

As I have said before we have several governmental organizations on Long Island (Town tax department, Town highway department, Water authority, Power Authority, Fire district, school district, Census bureau, Election commission, Post Office ...) each with their own different boundary for the same locality on their own GIS systems.

People on this forum insist on using a government boundary. My question is: Which of the above governments boundary should we use?

I vote for the Post Office zip code for the Long Island and New Jersey area. Other areas with a more united government should pick other ways to define boundaries.

What does the state say the boundary is? That's what we use in PA.

In MD, much of the state is unincorporated. Zip codes boundaries are your best option there.
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Re: Good lord...a sea of orange.

Postby CBenson » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:38 pm

Although there is no necessity that every area be assigned to a city. The sea of orange in MD (may it rest in peace) did identify some segments where the ZIP code boundaries extend beyond the census designation using the same name.
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Re: Good lord...a sea of orange.

Postby skapur1 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:15 am

jondrush wrote:What does the state say the boundary is? That's what we use in PA.

In MD, much of the state is unincorporated. Zip codes boundaries are your best option there.

The localities here are mostly unincorporated hamlets and the state therefore says very little. Every department of the state deals with a different local government e.g. the State Education department deals with the School district.
There is no true unincorporated area in NY State. Most counties (i.e. all counties outside NY City) are divided into "incorporated towns", "incorporated cities" and "incorporated villages". Most municipal services outside a city or village are provided by the "town" government with some services provided by the county government. There are very few official "cities" in NY state when compared to "cities" listed in Waze.

Here is an example of an official "town" with very well defined boundaries for the "town" itself and its communities and locations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brookhaven ... _locations
The town itself is over 500 sq miles and has about half a million people living in it. The problem is that the boundary of most of the "Communities and locations" is defined differently by different local government departments.

While one source of information on NY State: http://orthos.dhses.ny.gov/?lat=40.7215 ... 79&zoom=13 has town and incorporated village boundaries (click on layers), it does not have all the locations listed in the Wikipedia article above. Interestingly enough one of the layers that this NY State "government" mapping source lists is Zip code boundaries!

I know most places in the United States are not so confused about locality boundaries.
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Re: Good lord...a sea of orange.

Postby jondrush » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:24 am

Your state gives me a headache! :D
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Re: Good lord...a sea of orange.

Postby sockslabs » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:28 pm

In large swarths of MA, we have "Greater Hopkington Area", "Greater Northborough Area", "Greater Westborough Area", and then also plain-ole "Hopkington", "Northborough", and "Westborough". This is a sea of orange mess just waiting to happen.

Does anyone know how it got to be this way? Is it historical or hysterical?
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