Turn Restrictions

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Turn Restrictions

Postby barrynof » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:41 pm

How do I edit a turn restriction where the community has made a law that you cannot turn right onto a street between the hours of 7:30 a.m. And 8:30 a.m.?
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Re: Turn Restrictions

Postby CBenson » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:53 pm

The guidance in the FAQ that Jason cited is about as good as you're going to get. Do you have details of particular turn in mind?
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Re: Turn Restrictions

Postby CBenson » Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:30 pm

james8970 wrote:I think it ought to a little less ambiguous, as I find that's a little too open ended and will lead to people handling the same situation differently.

I think ambiguous is just the way it is. People do clearly handle the same situation differently, which is why there has been so much discussion. There is no good solution. Anything you do will produce bad results for someone. But, this should all be moot if we ever actually get the ability to address time restricted turns properly on the map.
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Re: Turn Restrictions

Postby dctdye » Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:47 am

doctorkb wrote:The FAQ disagrees with the page it links to: http://www.waze.com/wiki/index.php/Best ... cted_Turns

-- the rule of thumb seems to be changed to restrict them.

Any objections to editing the FAQ to concur with the linked article?
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Re: Turn Restrictions

Postby dctdye » Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:25 am

I disagree and think the FAQ and Article disagree :p

Article:
In a situation where a turn is illegal during certain times of the day (e.g. No Left Turn, 7-10 am, 3-7 pm, Weekdays), it's generally best to err on the side of caution and restrict the turn. This way, waze will never instruct a driver to make a turn when it is illegal (typically during rush-hour traffic, the worst-possible time to create driver confusion).
(Emphasis mine)

FAQ:
If the turns are allowed during the majority of a day or week, leave it open, but also consider volume and if most of the weekly traffic would be restricted from turning there, then set the turn as restricted.

While they say the same thing if you consider the time the turn is restricted to be "most of the weekly traffic" then they do agree, but I think that is a bit ambiguous even for an FAQ. My suggestion, if the article is still theoretically the standard at least, would be to simply paste the first paragraph (Waze currently has no provision [...]create driver confusion) as the FAQ answer and then link for the more detailed info.
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Re: Turn Restrictions

Postby dctdye » Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:44 am

I'm sure there is a more appropriate place to discuss the FAQ wiki, but the question right after about wrong address locations needs to be updated soon since house numbers are now back online.
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Re: Turn Restrictions

Postby doctorkb » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:41 pm

The FAQ disagrees with the page it links to: http://www.waze.com/wiki/index.php/Best ... cted_Turns

-- the rule of thumb seems to be changed to restrict them.
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Re: Turn Restrictions

Postby doctorkb » Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:25 am

harling wrote:
dctdye wrote:
doctorkb wrote:The FAQ disagrees with the page it links to: http://www.waze.com/wiki/index.php/Best ... cted_Turns

-- the rule of thumb seems to be changed to restrict them.

Any objections to editing the FAQ to concur with the linked article?

I don't think they disagree*; However, if the finer details of the FAQ entry are lost on someone looking for a quick answer (which I see as the purpose of the FAQ, whereas the Best Practices goes more into the reasoning behind the way we do things), it might need to be revised beyond the link to the BP document.

    * The "consider volume" clause is key, especially when turn restrictions are linked to rush hour and/or other periods of heavy traffic. (It would be much worse if Waze were to instruct an illegal turn in heavy traffic, possibly resulting in a traffic jam or accident, than if it were to forgo a legal turn when traffic is light.) "Every intersection is different and should be considered individually": this is one of those situations in which the AM needs to use his own discretion--guided, hopefully, by the cited considerations.

FWIW, the language in the FAQ document was introduced on 2 October 2012. I don't know what became of the lengthy revision history of the Best Practices document, but I know for a fact that its present language was introduced around 2011.


They totally disagree!

The FAQ implies that most time restrictions should be ignored (all the No-left-turn signs I know are for 2-3 hours during the rush hour), whereas the Best Practices document says that if there's any time that it's restricted, the turn should be disabled.

FWIW, the Best Practices changed in the last 3-4 months -- in November or December, it was similar to the FAQ, but it has since been updated to say "restrict" rather than "permit". And probably for the better.
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Re: Turn Restrictions

Postby harling » Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:10 am

dctdye wrote:
doctorkb wrote:The FAQ disagrees with the page it links to: http://www.waze.com/wiki/index.php/Best ... cted_Turns

-- the rule of thumb seems to be changed to restrict them.

Any objections to editing the FAQ to concur with the linked article?

I don't think they disagree*; However, if the finer details of the FAQ entry are lost on someone looking for a quick answer (which I see as the purpose of the FAQ, whereas the Best Practices goes more into the reasoning behind the way we do things), it might need to be revised beyond the link to the BP document.

    * The "consider volume" clause is key, especially when turn restrictions are linked to rush hour and/or other periods of heavy traffic. (It would be much worse if Waze were to instruct an illegal turn in heavy traffic, possibly resulting in a traffic jam or accident, than if it were to forgo a legal turn when traffic is light.) "Every intersection is different and should be considered individually": this is one of those situations in which the AM needs to use his own discretion--guided, hopefully, by the cited considerations.

FWIW, the language in the FAQ document was introduced on 2 October 2012. I don't know what became of the lengthy revision history of the Best Practices document, but I know for a fact that its present language was introduced around 2011.
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Re: Turn Restrictions

Postby harling » Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:06 am

doctorkb wrote:They totally disagree! The FAQ implies that most time restrictions should be ignored (all the No-left-turn signs I know are for 2-3 hours during the rush hour), whereas the Best Practices document says that if there's any time that it's restricted, the turn should be disabled.

The FAQ says that volume should be taken into consideration, and the BP spells out the reasoning behind it. I agree that the BP leans more toward restricting the turn as the default position, while the FAQ is more neutral. In any case, whether or not they "really" disagree, if they come across that way it does need to be addressed.
FWIW, the Best Practices changed in the last 3-4 months -- in November or December, it was similar to the FAQ, but it has since been updated to say "restrict" rather than "permit". And probably for the better.

The present language was the original, written (by me) in 2011. About a year later, someone reversed it--without authorization--to read the opposite. I subsequently changed it back.
dctdye wrote:My suggestion, if the article is still theoretically the standard at least, would be to simply paste the first paragraph (Waze currently has no provision [...]create driver confusion) as the FAQ answer and then link for the more detailed info.

Not a bad idea. I do think the FAQ should give the reader some concrete action to take, rather than just say "no" and point them to a treatise on the whys & wherefores. It could be as simple as:
    1. Turn-based restrictions are coming soon.
    2. Until then, consult an experienced editor.
    3. Failing that, read this guide and use your discretion.
I will bring this thread to the attention of the group tasked with updating the Wiki, for review.
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