Shields

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Re: Shields

Postby sketch » Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:44 pm

Short answer: Don't change the naming standard just to get shields to work.

Long answer: After seeing Caradellino's recent work in Australia, I've been inspired to get shields working for state highways in the US. It seems unlikely that Waze will add a shield rule here and a shield rule there, but with a full set of proposed rules, it seems they might be more willing.

Most states by now, I think, use "SR-", which does not create shields. It'd be easy to say "give SR- the state highway shield", but it doesn't end there. Some states have their own standards—Louisiana uses "LA-", Michigan uses "M-", and so forth, to follow local conventions. Some states, on the other hand, are still using "State Hwy", and I can't help but think that some of these are states without strong local leadership, who are just going on with what the base map came with.

"SH-" does not work at all, not even for text-to-speech. I don't know that I'd want it to, either. Even if roads are called "highway" by locals, I've never seen "SH-" written down anywhere, whereas even here (where, e.g., "LA 48" is on the signs), I've seen "SR-" used in DOTD information. I don't think users are going to be very confused by "SR-25", especially when it says "State Route 25" out loud.

What I'd like to see is (1) an abbreviation for every state, whether "SR-" or one specific to the state, (2) generic state highway oval shield for "SR-", and (3) specialized shields for all the states which have their own abbreviations, like "LA-" and "M-". I'll bet (1) is harder than it sounds.
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Re: Shields

Postby n8nagel » Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:29 pm

I recently noticed that MD seems to have the state highway shields up and running, which led me to check out this topic and also look at some of the shielded roads appearing in my client in MD in WME to see how they were named.

It appears that the only place that the oval shield appears is if "State Hwy xxx" is the primary name. I didn't see any instances of "SH-xxx" so I don't know if that's working or not. When the name of the road is the primary name and "State Hwy xxx" is one of the alternate names, the client seems to use the primary name and not the shield. This may be useful to know in cases where the two names are used interchangeably with no clear preference for one or the other, and you want to force the client to display both the shield and the name, the only downside being that if you alternate segment names then "select entire street" won't work.

In VA, the convention seems to be State Rte xxx or SR-xxx and that isn't working, even if it's a primary name e.g. State Rte 28 N.

Since Virginia seems to be on a trend of going towards using numbers rather than road names (I doubt people moving to the area in the last 5 years or so even know that SR-28 has a name; it used to be Sully Road) I'd think that SR shields would go a long way toward making the map more easily readable. I was hoping that I'd get some insight from this thread so I could go back to the VA forum and try to get everyone to agree on a naming standard to make the shields work, but it looks like we're going to have to wait a while longer unless we want to go to calling everything "State Hwy" which seems wrong to me.

Just my observations...
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Re: Shields

Postby PhantomSoul » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:48 am

CR is read as county road. It would make sense that PR is read as parish road. The only other state I know of that doesn't have counties is Alaska, which I believe is divided into Boroughs. I am not sure, however, if Alaska has borough roads akin to county roads elsewhere or whether an official BR acronym read as borough road would even make sense.
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Re: Shields

Postby sketch » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:38 am

The yellow-on-blue pentagon shield is apparently the one recommended by the MUTCD. I would be fine with incorporating that for CR-xx and Parish Rd xx — Louisiana uses the same shield for its parish routes.

Does "CR-" say "county route" or "county road"? Optimally we'd be able to get the equivalent for "PR-xx".

There are a few different county route numbering schemes I'm aware of, many involve letters, either purely or in conjunction with numbers. For example, Michigan's county route system is divided into regions A through somewhere around N; county highways are numbered like CR-B17. There are also county roads with just numbers which are not "highways".
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Re: Shields

Postby PhantomSoul » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:16 pm

Off topic, how about the blue and gold pentagon-shaped shields for county roads for the states that use them? I would think that a potential hurdle here is that many states make county roads as "CR-XXXX" where XXXX is a 1-4 character alphanumeric word. However many likely use a shield different from the blue and gold pentagon seen here in NJ and many other states.
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Re: Shields

Postby Caradellino » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:06 am

Sure, I ran in a couple of places with concurrent segments, and I don't think concurrent routes are unique in Europe. We just can't cover any European Freeway (E-route), because there is not a single segment not from a national shielded route. I know just Sweden deliberatly using just the European number...but that's not the point. ;)
I just wanted you to know, what I'm up to that you can bring in your pov to get a most common agreed system on the wishlist to the Waze...
...best before Xmas... :lol:

So I'm glad you like it :mrgreen:
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Re: Shields

Postby sketch » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:33 pm

Haha, it's surely not unique to Europe, either!

[ img ]

I-77 N, I-81 S, and US-52 N are concurrent at the point where you would see these signs. A few miles before, the three routes are also concurrent with US-11 S.

That's the only one I could think of off the top of my head, but I've certainly seen up to five concurrencies on the same freeway.
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Re: Shields

Postby Caradellino » Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:50 pm

Hi guys!
Since yesterday (local time) I have my first shields running in Austria too, which is important for me that I can drive now with shields and not just watch them in Australia when scrolling the client ;)

So it's about time to increase integration of shields. What you might not know, is that the issue of having more than one shield at a time is rather critical in Europe: the European Highway grid is just kind of superimposed on existing national routes of the various european Nations. So allmost every major freeway has at least two shielded designations. For we in Austria have allready taken this into account when coding our streetnames we'd like to assist Waze in getting multiple shields.

I've given it some thougth and came to the conclusion that multiple shields and further integration should be seen together, therefore I forwarded a suggestion to our community manager (For AU I have to share Amit with you, but for Austria I have lizcrime ;))
integrationdouble.jpg
(131.85 KiB) Downloaded 389 times

Upper picture shows todays client display with the actual single shield and the bubbles. The major has not passed the pattern process yet and therefore still the complete streetname in the bubble. The lower picture is, as we think it should be. As you can see, if a multiple shield (one shield looking like multiple shields) is generated in a side by side design, this could be used to fill the bubbles and the routing instructions. You might notice, I integrated your suggestion to let go of the hyphens - though I'm using Austria as an example and test area, I'm working on a common solution for all of us (that's the reason for this post here too)
Btw. this situation is real: we start from a freeway with two European Routes and have one leaving the freeway and following the major, while the other stays with the freeway. (a tripple shield route splitting in two dual shield routes)
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Re: Shields

Postby sketch » Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:09 pm

CBenson wrote:
sketch wrote:we get ambitious and give Waze blank shields for each state, and submit 48 states'

I'd say 53 will DC and the territories.

Well, in the full quote I meant to imply "K- for Kansas, M- for Michigan, and the two-letter abbreviations for the other 48 states". But yes, the number will be higher than 50, because of DC, territories, and because a few states have more than one shield. Not sure how we'd handle those, and also not sure how we'd handle the "lettered" secondary state routes of Missouri.

Caradellino wrote:Supplement:
AU is going to propose to Amit a suggestion/wish for further implementation of the shields into the client - you surely noticed the purple bubble issue. For a pic says more than thousand words, I just created an "artists impression", so it's a fake picture of what we want, not what we have. I'd be happy if you agree to this and support it as well...ademand from two highly populated continents is hard to neglect for Waze :lol:
shieldintegration.jpg

Funny—I made a post suggesting something very similar to this many years ago! https://www.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... t=10#p3506

Of course, I love the idea, especially with the navigation bubbles. (Forget the old suggestion about control cities.) The very best way to implement this, IMO, would be to replace both the "I-10" part and the subsequent slash or hyphen where there is one, that way you could have it say "to [I-10 shield] New Orleans / Baton Rouge" on a ramp, and "[NA8] Barton Hwy" on the purple bubble, without taking up the extra room.
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Re: Shields

Postby CBenson » Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:55 am

sketch wrote:we get ambitious and give Waze blank shields for each state, and submit 48 states'

I'd say 53 will DC and the territories.
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