Shields

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Re: Shields

Postby Caradellino » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:02 am

Thanks for the heads up, it brings quite a lot of insights, especially for you seem to be ahead regarding TTS.

For Austria (my home turf) it's no problem, for we have routes A, S, B and L, we have coded them for a long time now despite having any shield (yet, tests should have started last week, but there was a huge problem with dashboard and scoreboard on ROW, so that might be the reason for the delay) and we are happy with TTS for it reflects our local parlance (thx for that phrase, learned something new along...).

Australia is with its taditional numbering more like you in style, and I take it as valuable information that you managed to have TTS "decode" shield patterns as well. Guess I get the kangaroos stating, what they want to hear on the various patterns, "State Route" for SR would be a good start for them as well. ;)

sketch wrote:Well, a couple problem we have faced in trying to get better shields in a place that already has SOME (as opposed to getting shields for the first time): some editors elect not to change their habits so as to avoid breaking the existing shields, and perhaps Waze is less eager to give us more than what we already have.
If you manage to implement the new shield pattersn beside the existing one I'm rather sure guys will change them gradually. If you change the shields by assigning the new shield to the existing pattern, the change will run automatically. I have faced no relctance or call for a limit of shield patterns being submitted.
Amit promised, unlike gas stations or toll roads there is no need for any percentage of area being already mapped according to your patterns before going live, and he kept this promise. Just the guys where so eager entering codes that once the shields went live the client lit like a christmas-tree in the capital cities. And now thea are the more eager to enter the rest, because they see the result of the effort. Board of CM on Australia said, it's like Xmas coming early this year :lol:
So from my experiance: shields are a self runner once you have the patterns.

...one hint: look for a silent place (dessert maybe) and make a grid of phony streets, apply an example for every pattern you submit. It has proven extremly valuable to have a place like that to check on the rollout of the various pattern without having to hunt for a proper example. Don't forget to add a landmark with a unique name, to make that test area findable in the client.
Australia had the Road Shield Ranch for that.

I'm happy to have dropped in here for our exchange of information really proves mutual beneficial. :mrgreen:

Supplement:
AU is going to propose to Amit a suggestion/wish for further implementation of the shields into the client - you surely noticed the purple bubble issue. For a pic says more than thousand words, I just created an "artists impression", so it's a fake picture of what we want, not what we have. I'd be happy if you agree to this and support it as well...ademand from two highly populated continents is hard to neglect for Waze :lol:
shieldintegration.jpg
Suggestion of further shield integration: inclusion in route bubbles and turn instructions
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Re: Shields

Postby sketch » Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:16 am

Well, a couple problem we have faced in trying to get better shields in a place that already has SOME (as opposed to getting shields for the first time): some editors elect not to change their habits so as to avoid breaking the existing shields, and perhaps Waze is less eager to give us more than what we already have.

We've had many a discussion about what to name state highways, but no consensus. Some states use "SR-" because it's short and expands in TTS to "State route"; in Louisiana and Michigan we use LA- and M- as we do in local parlance and on signs; and some states have stuck with "State Hwy" because the local terminology is always "highway" and never "route". Yet others have chosen to retain "State Rte" to keep shields; some are reluctant to change until we have a definite yes on new shield criteria.

Another problem we face if adopting shields for every state is TTS. It's fine in Louisiana and Michigan but for states that don't use their initials or abbreviations in route names, hearing "Em Ess 73" instead of "highway 73" or "Mississippi 73" is off-putting enough to give many editors cause for concern. Doubly so in states where highways are lettered rather than numbered—imagine in Missouri being asked to turn onto "MO-X": "Turn right, at Em Oh Ecks"?

I'm all for it, don't get me wrong, and I'd love to see it happen, but a lot of things have to be done for such a necessarily complicated set of rules.


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Re: Shields

Postby Caradellino » Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:39 am

sketch wrote:We'd also have to ask Waze to run scripts or whatever to change every instance of "State Rte" and "State Hwy" and "SR-" and "SH-", by state, to fit the state abbreviation or initial (where applicable)
Some suggestions, if I may be so bold:
  • Start by making a list just from scratch to get your shields list. Though what you see on my table are screenshots from the client, initially we had just any example for the shield, design team will draw them for the client themselves.
  • Collect the main used pattern for each shield you want to show. Remember, patterns are national (countrywide) currently, as you told me, even if you have the state field it's not been used in shield generation process
  • Sort it out: one shield can have many pattern, but one pattern can only have one shield. You will have to decide what's to be changed, if two states used the same code. Of course, you can also have Amit persuade the devs to make use of the state field too (so every state can have a different shield for "State Hwy") - but I'm not sure if they would do it at all, and if they do what the timeframe for such rework might be.
  • Once you have the complete and agreed upon list: fix up the streetnames.
    From real good experiance in AU: let the editors adapt patterns in streetnames, not Waze. It's a big community thing, you will get a lot from it if you make it a community endeavour. Also, once the patterns are active, newly edited roads will get their shields automatically, so the editors have a direct feedback from theyr work.We went the different way, for most of the roads had no numbers. Now check via livemap, every road with a bullet has it's proper shield in the client, all done by the community (in allmost notime), who is VERY proud of the shields now, because all worked together to get that project done. Waze scripting might be a fast way, but doing it yourself is like adding glue to the community :mrgreen:

But any way you choose to go: good luck, it's worth the effort. A "pretty" client is the best way to attract new users and that helps Waze to grow.
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Re: Shields

Postby PhantomSoul » Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:03 am

sketch wrote:we get ambitious and give Waze blank shields for each state, and submit 48 states' yy-x, yy-xx, etc. with their state shields, M-x etc. and K-x etc. for those states which use a one-letter route prefix, and SR-x etc. for the generic oval so we have a shield for those segments which are not changed over. We'd also have to ask Waze to run scripts or whatever to change every instance of "State Rte" and "State Hwy" and "SR-" and "SH-", by state, to fit the state abbreviation or initial (where applicable).


This is good, actually, if we can get it. Not only will it reflect the actual road markers used and putting us on par with iPhone's Apple Maps, but the TTS would actually read them correctly as well, which is something that iPhone's Apple Maps currently cannot handle in places like Michigan and Kansas, with the their M- and K- notation.
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Re: Shields

Postby sketch » Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:12 am

PhantomSoul wrote:Sounds like in the US, because of the different ways state roads are colloquially referred to in different regions, we would need to match any of State Hwy XXXX, SR-XXXX, or YY-XXXX, where XXXX is 1-4 alphanumeric characters (some state roads have letter suffixes, particularly in New York) and YY is 2 alphabetic characters matching the 2-letter abbreviations of any of the states or American territories, since many prefer to go by that.

What do other American editors think?

CBenson wrote:I think that would be great. I'm not holding my breath until it happens.

It sounds great to me. I'm not going to be quite so pessimistic—I think half the problem has been solved by Caradellino's work—what exactly we need to ask Waze to do.

Either
  • we take it easy and submit a big list of various abbreviations (yy-x, yy-xx, yy-xxx, y-xxxx for the various two-letter state abbreviations or at least the states that use it; M-x etc. and K-x etc. for Michigan and Kansas; SR-x etc. for states that use it, etc.) and give them all the generic oval state shield, or
  • we get ambitious and give Waze blank shields for each state, and submit 48 states' yy-x, yy-xx, etc. with their state shields, M-x etc. and K-x etc. for those states which use a one-letter route prefix, and SR-x etc. for the generic oval so we have a shield for those segments which are not changed over. We'd also have to ask Waze to run scripts or whatever to change every instance of "State Rte" and "State Hwy" and "SR-" and "SH-", by state, to fit the state abbreviation or initial (where applicable).

The first is pretty easily attainable, I think, and would put us at the same level as every other GPS map I can think of besides Apple Maps. The second may be a pipe dream.
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Re: Shields

Postby Caradellino » Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:35 pm

PhantomSoul wrote:matching the 2-letter abbreviations of any of the states or American territories, since many prefer to go by that.
It's absolutely logical to do it this way - changing the streetnames would be much more work.
Might give you the complete pattern table from AU like you will find it in the Wiki:
patterntables_AU.png
(176.03 KiB) Downloaded 942 times

Note that Rural Road (RR) and Tourist Route (TR) have the same shield, just different coding. Guess that's the same like you will handle those oval shield roadtypes.
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Re: Shields

Postby CBenson » Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:56 pm

I think that would be great. I'm not holding my breath until it happens.
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Re: Shields

Postby PhantomSoul » Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:59 pm

Sounds like in the US, because of the different ways state roads are colloquially referred to in different regions, we would need to match any of State Hwy XXXX, SR-XXXX, or YY-XXXX, where XXXX is 1-4 alphanumeric characters (some state roads have letter suffixes, particularly in New York) and YY is 2 alphabetic characters matching the 2-letter abbreviations of any of the states or American territories, since many prefer to go by that.

What do other American editors think?
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Re: Shields

Postby PhantomSoul » Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:10 am

We have state route shields in the US right now, but only in limited form, requiring you to code the primary name of the segments using the specific phrase State Hwy followed by a word consisting of only numeric characters (such as 9, 27, or 184, but not 9w, for example).

The state route shields do not appear to work at all, for now, in states whose guidelines say state routes should be coded in any other way, such as the phrase State Rte, SR, or the 2-letter abbreviations for states. I am not sure if the alternate street names are searched at all for a shield-recognition pattern, but last I tested it a few months ago, the phrase State Hwy 27 encoded into an alternate name field did not result in a 27 being drawn with an oval shield.

Hopefully Waze will expand its shield pattern recognition to include these in the near future.
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Re: Shields

Postby jondrush » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:50 am

We have not been given any special shields by state. It is at the top of our request list.
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