Terrace: Ter or Tce

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Re: Terrace: Ter or Tce

Postby davidg666 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:29 pm

Hi Diarmuid,
DiarmuidCogan wrote:This is a follow up to a UR in Cork. For a couple of years most of us have been changing any street called X Terrace from Tce to Ter. Tce is used fairly extensively in Ireland but Ter is the recognised (by Waze/USPS/UK OS, etc.) abbreviation for Terrace. Both Ter and Tce are on the TTS list https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/Abbreviations_and_acronyms but only Ter is on our country specific page https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/How_to_label_and_name_roads_%28Ireland%29

When I wrote the country-specific page, I automatically included the abbreviations page using this syntax: {{TTS_Abbreviations}} ... at the time, I think the equivalent UK page was doing the same, but I notice that it now has its own table of abbreviations to use. It's possible that the automatically-included table we use is obsolete.

It would probably be better if we included a link to the standard Abbreviations & Acronyms page instead of having our own table.

DiarmuidCogan wrote:Has anyone heard the TTS properly pronounce Tce or does it spell it out? What are we to do, leave them as either, change them as we have been doing or change them back to Tce?

I *think* I've heard TTS correctly pronounce Tce, but it was quite a while ago, so I can't be certain of it.

I suggest that somebody temporarily rename a road to use Tce (I think you did for that UR yesterday?), wait for a tile update, then drive it and see what it says. If it does pronounce Tce properly, then there's no great need to go around renaming these streets, and I reckon we can just leave them as they are. If it doesn't pronounce them, however, then we should continue renaming as we have been doing - getting the TTS changed might be more work :|

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Re: Terrace: Ter or Tce

Postby davidg666 » Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:50 am

lsin023 wrote:NOK:
"Tce" is pronounced "TeeCee" Permalink

Ah - it must have been with the old voices that I thought I heard 'Tce' pronounced right.

lsin023 wrote:OK:
"Grv" is pronounced "Grove" Permalink
"N" is pronounced "North" Permalink

I'm not a big fan of the more obscure abbreviations - such as 'Grv'. I think it should be obvious when looking at them what they mean.

As for 'N', I find it's *not* being pronounced as "north" for cardinal directions on motorways (unless this has just changed in the last couple of days) - "M11 N" is still pronounced "em eleven en", which obviously isn't right.

lsin023 wrote:"St." is pronounced "Saint" Permalink

Could anyone confirm that?

Definitely - and this was the case with the old Nuance voices too. I've been in the habit of adding the dot where necessary to all saints in road names.

Timbones wrote:Abbreviations are set per country now, so Waze can add missing ones for you.

Aha - thanks Tim. What do we have to do get that done? (I think 99% of our abbreviations would be the same as for the UK, although as this thread has shown, we'd probably like 'Tce' for "Terrace".)

Is there any control over TTS pronunciation of placenames? I know there are a good few special cases for the UK, but there are probably a lot of special cases for Irish placenames too (and that's just for the anglicised ones; the policy here is to always spell the placenames the same they appear on road signs, but in Gaeltacht (Irish speaking) areas, the signs are in Irish only, although we typically haven't (so far) made the placenames for Waze in these areas just Irish.

That said, I imagine getting TTS to handle pure Irish pronunciation would be a huge job...

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Terrace: Ter or Tce

Postby DiarmuidCogan » Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:07 pm

Hi guys,

This is a follow up to a UR in Cork. For a couple of years most of us have been changing any street called X Terrace from Tce to Ter. Tce is used fairly extensively in Ireland but Ter is the recognised (by Waze/USPS/UK OS, etc.) abbreviation for Terrace. Both Ter and Tce are on the TTS list https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/Abbreviations_and_acronyms but only Ter is on our country specific page https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/How_to_label_and_name_roads_%28Ireland%29

Has anyone heard the TTS properly pronounce Tce or does it spell it out? What are we to do, leave them as either, change them as we have been doing or change them back to Tce?
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Re: Terrace: Ter or Tce

Postby lsin023 » Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:34 am

Hi guys,

I made the UR because...
With the new UK English TTS voice Kate (Google) which replaces UK English Serena (Nuance) and after clearing the TTS cache by searching "cc@tts" (case sensitive):
NOK:
"Tce" is pronounced "TeeCee" Permalink
"Grn" is pronounced "GeeArEnn" Permalink
"St Lawrence Rd" is pronounced "Street Lawrence Road" Permalink

OK:
"Grv" is pronounced "Grove" Permalink
"N" is pronounced "North" Permalink
"St." is pronounced "Saint" Permalink

Could anyone confirm that?
I suggest that we retest all abbreviations used in Ireland with the new TTS Kate in this spreadsheet and update the Waze Wiki page accordingly.

Stan
Last edited by lsin023 on Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Terrace: Ter or Tce

Postby lsin023 » Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:14 am

As it concerns many abbreviations, I opened Abbreviations and TTS navigation voices with a Google Spreadsheet to report issues. ;)
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Re: Terrace: Ter or Tce

Postby Timbones » Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:08 am

Abbreviations are set per country now, so Waze can add missing ones for you.

However, "St Lawrence Rd" will have to be renamed to use "St." (with a dot), as that is the only way to correctly get "Saint".

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Re: Terrace: Ter or Tce

Postby Timbones » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:46 am

davidg666 wrote:
Timbones wrote:Abbreviations are set per country now, so Waze can add missing ones for you.

Aha - thanks Tim. What do we have to do get that done? (I think 99% of our abbreviations would be the same as for the UK, although as this thread has shown, we'd probably like 'Tce' for "Terrace".)

Talk to Shira about it, and she'll pass it on to, or put you in touch with, the relevant person.

davidg666 wrote:Is there any control over TTS pronunciation of placenames?

Not as yet. We have similar problems in the UK, both with simple English names (like Reading), old Saxon/Viking/Norman names, as well as Welsh. We're going to start collecting examples so that we can put a strong case to Waze.

(I think street names are more commonly read by TTS than place names, so focus on them)
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