Waze Cheating in Ireland.

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Re: Waze Cheating in Ireland.

Postby Agamicox » Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:12 pm

Good luck :-)
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Re: Waze Cheating in Ireland.

Postby Agamicox » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:03 am

arthurohara wrote: <...> All I will say now is that a transport/logistics company is the main suspect. <...>

Just curious... What actions do they do to cheat?
I'm using Waze daily in my work and I am a Field Service Engineer. Not abusing Reports (often not even reporting at all, just letting Waze report traffic speed itself). Am I considered to be a bad person?

xteejx wrote: <... > without providing any real input to the map data other than forcing tile changes which aren't needed <...>

What is that exactly? Just to know if I am not doing this thing by mistake too.

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Waze Cheating in Ireland.

Postby arthurohara » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:22 am

Does anyone other than myself even slightly suspect that some Irish Waze members are cheating in some way or another for points?

Your views and comments would be appreciated. My views and beliefs are obvious and I intend to try and do something to halt the practice or at least assure myself that it is no longer happening!

We are seeing some very high points being recorded but, where is the work? The high amount of points should reflect itself on the Ireland map but falls far short.

Here is a quote from comments I made yesterday in another part of the forum entitled "Waze Cheating". I have also written Waze on the matter.

arthurohara wrote:Seems to me Waze turns a somewhat blinkered eye to cheaters, cheats and cheating generally. Maybe they are just collecting the evidence before they pounce on the cheater and banish him/her to the scrap yard crusher!

I do thankfully appreciate and see some actions been taken in the latest release but, its not enough.

It is obvious to a blind man that high scale cheating for points is going on! I give Waze the maximum of my spare time, when possible. I work hard at it! If I put in an extra long hard week on Waze, driving but mostly editing I see others tripling my weekly score in Ireland without been seen driving, editing or showing an appropriate return of work for the points they earn in a typical day and or week.

I think some people with a high degree of technical know-how can and do manipulate the Waze system!

I would like to see definitive Waze policy and actions taken to bar cheaters without recourse to appeal. Nothing good for Waze can come from a cheat.

Honesty is the best policy!

"Get the point not the points"

Tue 10 Jul 2012 1631 GMT Daylight Time Wk. 28.
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Re: Waze Cheating in Ireland.

Postby arthurohara » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:22 am

Sixty views and two further comments later!

Waze don't seem interested whether users cheat for points or not. Makes one wonder if they want honest hard-working editors to continue building the map. Maybe I'm writing to the wrong people in Waze. Allowing cheating for excessive points, leaves questions to be answered, a lot to be desired and a reasonable question as to the authenticity behind the whole project. Every effort must be made to stamp out every form of cheating for points.

xteejx on Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:13 pm rightly states - "does nothing of any benefit to the map. It's a shame really"
.

Ireland does not have an undeveloped map. Considering we have such sparse high resolution satellite imagery that is available in other countries, the Irish map is great and improving at a fair pace. It just takes a bit more effort! We have some brilliant editors out there doing just that and they should be highly commended.

I'm going to continue to do my own little bit of detective work on suspected cheating and will post my findings.

Cheating for high points is possible because I believe what is stated by eminent editors here:-

llayden wrote:
dmcconachie wrote:In /my/ humble opinion 100k, and even 70k, in one week is not possible if you are taking care with what you are doing, ensuring things are correct and not using other, copyrighted, sources!

Some of the top editors on here, and I don't mean by points, have been editing for a long long time and getting nowhere near scores like that. My highest ever weekly score is around 27k and involved editing for roughly 6 hours a day for 6/7 days! To suggest the effort I have put in over almost 2 years of dedication can be achieved in 6-10 weeks is nothing short of insulting.

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I agree that 100k is unlikely to be legitimate. However, I have had to revise my suspicions as to what may be legitimate. I was a die-hard Cartouche editor until about a month ago. I noticed what was going on with points and did an experiment which I have told some of you about - basically I did a once off cheat of 20,000 edits (took about six hours to complete). This was worth 60,000 points. I told Waze exactly what I had done and the counter measures that would prevent it happening again. They have said that some of the counter measures will be introduced shortly. I also asked them to reduce my points - but they didn't. However after that, I switched to Papyrus and have been very surprised that without increasing my editing time, my points have substantially increased. I used to be good for 15-25k a week but am now hitting twice that per week - quite legitimately. However, its patchy. My impression is that when I'm concentrating on junctions, I score more than when I'm concentrating on naming things or drawing roads. For sure many things are faster in Papyrus but I also think its counting differently.

BTW I think that at the end of every month, everyone should lose 5% of their total points - give new entrants a chance to catch up - a discounted points flow?


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Re: Waze Cheating for Points in Ireland.

Postby arthurohara » Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:44 am

Some further time has been focused on the issue of cheating for Waze points by Irish Waze users and those primarily involved.

A startling surprise or two has been encountered. Naturally some very high point scorers, who show little editing activity on the Ireland map do come to the fore.

An in-depth report will be published when substantial findings and further analysis is completed.

Safe and Happy driving assisted by Waze.

Thu 20 Sep 2012 1141 GMT Daylight Time Wk. 38.
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Re: Waze Cheating in Ireland.

Postby arthurohara » Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:14 am

Agamicox wrote:Good luck :-)


Thanks "Agamicox" :!: I know I will need it. :idea:

I also know I can conduct a successful investigation to determine facts. :shock:

International views on cheating for Waze Points would be welcome.

The PM feedback strongly indicates it is a big turn-off to genuine new editors to see some of the high scores that are attained. No balance. Motivation factor destroyed. A disdain for cheats. Nothing good comes from cheating.

I'm also pleased to note that many who have contacted are, like myself not in it for the points but for "the common good out there on the road".

Cheaters don't care one way or the other.

Safe motoring assisted by Waze.

Sat 22 Sep 2012 1112 GMT Daylight Time Wk. 38.
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Re: Waze Cheating in Ireland.

Postby arthurohara » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:20 pm

My investigations into cheating for Waze points in Ireland continue.

My aim is to out any Waze member suspected of engaging in less than honest means to game the system in order to clock up high points consistently and unfairly. This type of thing is destroying the initiative to recruit additional editors in Ireland simply because they feel left out and see no hope of ever catching up. I'm surprised by the number of PM's I've received from around the country stating this. Those that do take an interest are pointing in a single direction, with which I must concur.

I can state in the main that cheating unfairly for Waze points is centered around three sources in particular. All I will say now is that a transport/logistics company is the main suspect. They know themselves who they are but are probably unwilling to engage or to take any notice of this. I have communicated by PM but never received a response.

I will bide my time until I can categorically state for certain. When I have reasonable prime facie material I will publish it here.

Sincerely

Arthur.
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Re: Waze Cheating in Ireland.

Postby arthurohara » Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:40 am

Agamicox wrote:
arthurohara wrote: <...> All I will say now is that a transport/logistics company is the main suspect. <...>

Just curious... What actions do they do to cheat?
I'm using Waze daily in my work and I am a Field Service Engineer. Not abusing Reports (often not even reporting at all, just letting Waze report traffic speed itself). Am I considered to be a bad person?

xteejx wrote: <... > without providing any real input to the map data other than forcing tile changes which aren't needed <...>

What is that exactly? Just to know if I am not doing this thing by mistake too.

Thanks




God No Agamicox, you are VERY OBVIOUSLY doing absolutely nothing wrong but everything right and most definitely not a bad person. I respectfully suggest you should have a go at editing too, if not already doing so.

I hasten to add I'm not saying anyone that cheats is a bad person either - no way, we all have some frailties.

In addition to what xteejx states
Making the tiniest of changes possible basically without actually *doing* anything, if that makes sense?
, could I add without actually doing anything to benefit the map and ultimately users.

There is also another element I will touch upon now whereby I suspect the user/s under notice send a second client device away with a truck driver on national and or international logistical deliveries while they sit back at work base in their IT job and carefully keep their personal client device quiet and out of use over the critical period. There is actual evidence of that. Perish the thought they might send one by arrangement via air transport. It would also appear a dedicated editor other than the user edits on their behalf.

I have taken all of this up with Waze separately. I expect they see that to allow cheating of any sort to continue can only prove detrimental to the overall project.

Sincerely,

Arthur.
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Re: Waze Cheating in Ireland.

Postby arthurohara » Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:05 am

Before publicly naming anyone suspected of cheating, the consequences of which I'm happy to accept, I'm openly asking what the stated position of Waze as an organization is on cheating for points and their attitude and views to obvious cheating that exists.

Some of the points generated weekly are simply not justifiable or achievable by editing and or driving or even arranging both 247.

Does Waze have a policy on cheaters and especially those that are reported to them as suspect? Does Waze condone cheating?

I personally do not wish to be associated with any organisation that condones or allows such activity!

I see far too many high ranking editors passing scant comment and accepting as is unfortunately, which really indicates - don't knock it!
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Re: Waze Cheating in Ireland.

Postby arthurohara » Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:15 am

Hi,

No is the simple answer to your query "ikyriakidis".

Cheating can come in many guises.

Some of the cheap easy cheats are those that flit around a large area of the map re-editing segments where there is no reason for a re-edit. In many instances they leave damage behind - messing up alignment, turns, breaking connections, etc. You can see at a glance their work is careless and not up to scratch. A complete waste of space and of no benefit to Waze and more importantly Waze users. Some of these can easily be identified because they end up getting their name as an Updater on practically every segment. Editing where editing is not required and in a headlong rush to build up points. They will be quick to tell you baloney that they came across a problem! There are not problems on that many segments, especially the number of segments being re-edited, if you understand what I mean, so those types are easily identified. You never see them undertake intricate time-consuming assessment and editing tasks or generating new segments!

Then you have the geek types who can utilise scripts to generate short road segment/s automatically, save the newly generated segment/s, then after a relevant time-lapse delete the segment/s automatically and then automatically re-generate it again. This process can go on for hours generating miles and miles of bogus road segments and earning lots of points. You can look out for these type of things occurring on short road segment ends measuring 40-90 meters in length in cities where there is a large matting of GPS signals. Some just place a 30-50 meter segment which can re-generate at least three segments automatically.

Most of the big points earners engage in cheating. Some editors in some small countries have so many points earned they could have paved to Mars and back! Amazing!

I've been out of action for a time because of serious injuries sustained. Now I'm nearly back to full fettle again I'm going to devote more time to rooting out cheats. I'm a bit like a dog with a bone when it comes to cheating.

I would encourage new editors to become active throughout Ireland. Go through the tutorials, become familiar with the Wiki and ask questions in the Forum if need be. You will always receive some level of help to get you started. My harping on about cheating is aimed at mature editors who should know better, so don't be worried that you might be doing something wrong at any time. We all had to learn so expect to make mistakes. WE know enough to identify genuine editors.
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