Routing over roundabout instead of ramp

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Re: Routing over roundabout instead of ramp

Postby davidg666 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:00 pm

iainhouse wrote:There are two ways to do this. The first involves tricking Waze into regarding the roundabout route as including a u-turn, which it will then avoid. More details here.
...
I would suggest the first method here, as it's a bit simpler. :geek:

Thanks Iain!

Yanis, if I understand the first method right, all that's required here is to make the northbound entrance to the roundabout and the westbound exit from the roundabout meet it at 90 degrees. The intermediate roundabout segment is already less than 15m long (it's 13m).

If you do this and it works, then I suggest locking the roundabout (and the bypass segment) at L3 and adding a map comment explaining the reason for the lock.

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Re: Routing over roundabout instead of ramp

Postby davidg666 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:26 pm

YanisKyr wrote:I will also look at the M50 S to M1 S & M1 N to M50 N which has occurs to myself and many others often.

There are quite a few around - I used to go through this one every day and had to undo attempts by others to fix it up.

This one is interesting too, although I don't know if it has the same problem (I don't usually approach it from the west). This roundabout is "interesting" in other ways too - although I think the crossing-over eastbound entrance and northbound exit segments might be an attempt to fix the same problem.

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Re: Routing over roundabout instead of ramp

Postby davidg666 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:31 pm

YanisKyr wrote:The 90 degree solution for the first one you've linked might have a negative effect on directions of the like "at the roundabout go straight/right/left" - might see transition between these two segments as a "go straight".

Do you know what prompts a "go straight" across a pair of roundabout segments? I assume it's more than just two segments joining the roundabout at 90 degrees and having 180 degrees relative to each other - but if it is, then I imagine we could do some further angle-tweaking here to get around that.

YanisKyr wrote:I've panned over the second one in Glenageary plenty of times, and even though it looks like an egg and I'd love to fix some geometry, I'm not touching it. Ok I added the speed limit :lol: :mrgreen:

Yeah, when I first saw what had been done to it, I though "WTF!!??" then realised that - despite its complexity - it *probably* worked OK, and so I avoided touching it.

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Re: Routing over roundabout instead of ramp

Postby davidg666 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:24 pm

YanisKyr wrote:Yeah, here's the wazeopedia article :)

That reminds me (and this is unrelated to this thread, but anyway...) - I haven't yet got around to converting our old wiki pages to Wazeopedia. It's on my list...

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Re: Routing over roundabout instead of ramp

Postby davidg666 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:33 pm

Hi Yanis,

I drove this way on Saturday (from the south towards the roundabout and then west), but despite your fix, Waze still routed me through the roundabout rather than using the roundabout-bypass lane. I haven't thought too hard about what might be wrong here; all your junction angles look perfect.

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Re: Routing over roundabout instead of ramp

Postby davidg666 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:21 am

Hi Yanis,
YanisKyr wrote:Another frustrating similar report! The 3 points from Ian's post #2 are in place, and the roundabout segment is 48m so way above the 15m 90 degree workaround. Maybe I'm missing something?

https://www.waze.com/editor/?env=row&lo ... t=10858574

I don't think this is the same kind of problem, since the motorway interchange is much more complicated than just one roundabout and one small bypass segment.

I've had Waze route me properly through this interchange, coming from the south and heading northwest, although this is usually on a weekend. I notice that the purple Waze-provided route in the UR must be the route after Waze has seen the user take the flyover and not the roundabout.

Since it's a very long flyover, it must be long enough to sometimes have heavy traffic, and I notice it was reported at 19:24 on a Tuesday, which could be close enough to commuting time to have traffic. The user said that Waze always sends them through the roundabout.

We *could* set the roundabout segments (at least this one anyway) to to have Unfavoured routing (it's a shame you can't do this with ramps), but that would affect other routes through the roundabout, so that doesn't feel ideal at all. I've also rarely used this feature, and I don't know how well it works.

Another idea (for now anyway) would be to ask the reporting user if they always get routed this way at the same time every day. It may well be that this route through the roundabout is indeed actually quicker than taking the flyover - every time I go through that interchange (almost never at peak times, mind you), the roundabout looks pretty quiet.

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Re: Routing over roundabout instead of ramp

Postby davidg666 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:41 am

YanisKyr wrote:You're right, this looks like the routing server.

That said, I went this way yesterday (Sunday) morning, coming up the M50 from the south and going to Blanchardstown and was routed through the roundabout. There was moderate (for a Sunday) traffic on the M50 as a whole, but the roundabout was also fairly empty, but it did seem a bit odd to have th go through a set of traffic lights on a roundabout. I guess it was physically shorter than taking the flyover though... I couldn't see how much traffic there was on the flyover.

Right now (Monday morning), Live Map offers the roundabout as the first route, but taking 4 minutes (from a random point in the M50 south of the roundabout to a point on the N3 just before the second exit for the shopping centre), but the flyover as the *second* route taking 3 minutes. Hmmm...

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Re: Routing over roundabout instead of ramp

Postby davidg666 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:07 pm

YanisKyr wrote:This becomes more frustrating now!

I guess neither route is actually *wrong*, and the times don't very by that much - especially if they're part of a longer drive, as they usually would be, so I don't think it's worth worrying about that much.
YanisKyr wrote:Considering our small user base in Ireland, could it be possible that the routing server is using a small data sample (and potentially inaccurate)?

Yeah, we're not quite hitting 250 users at peak times in Dublin:

http://wazestats.com/active.php?city=27

...compared to over 6,000 for Rome, 30,000 for London and 130,000 (!) for Paris (although the Paris stats show something weird over the last couple of months). I guess these are all much larger cities; let's look at something more comparable:

Vienna (1.7 million people, so a big bigger) is peaking at nearly 600 sometimes, and Helsinki (600,000 people, but that's pretty close to the same population of Dublin's city area) is hitting 400. Copenhagen's about the same population too, and they're peaking at around 350. Athens is the only one I've found so far with a similar population but fewer users (peaks around 150).

Even Berlin (3.4 million) is hitting around 440, so maybe we're not doing too badly per unit of population - although we don't have the best public transport or cycling infrastructure to pull people away from cars.

There are links to many more cities at the top of that stats page, but at least we've climbed about 75% over the last two years.

OK, I'll stop rambling now. In this particular case, I don't think there's anything wrong with the map, and I'd say around the M50 and its interchanges, there should be plenty of users. I also think the Dublin map is in fairly good shape (but we could still work on attracting more users to bring our stats closer to other cities of a similar size) and we should probably be looking at the other major population centres around the country. Although we don't have stats readily available for those, maybe it's worth discussing the best areas and issues to focus on.

Opinions? We could turn this into a new thread.

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Re: Routing over roundabout instead of ramp

Postby davidg666 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:32 pm

Unrelated to this routing issue: I've split the last post on this topic into a new thread to discuss ways to promote Waze further in Ireland and what kinds of areas we need to focus on most for map editing to make things better.

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Re: Routing over roundabout instead of ramp

Postby davidg666 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:49 am

YanisKyr wrote:I am reviving this thread as I believe to have found a solution! Bumped on this thread earlier and got some ideas https://www.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=191369, played around a bit, and here we go.

My implementation needs:
a. One Roundabout per entry with a bypass segment
b. Extra Private Road segments for the non-bypass exits to assist with directions (exit counting)
c. Extra segments for entries/exits that can be used with any of the roundabouts
d. Voice prompts set to None for the Y junctions created by the extra segments from the point c.
...

Wow, that makes my head hurt :)

Has this one gone live yet and been tested on the ground?

Assuming it works: lock it up tight to L5, because I can imagine any other editor (myself included) seeing it and mashing it to pieces because they don't understand what's going on. Maybe cover it in a map comment too, to discourage changing it by anybody who doesn't understand it completely.

Now, if only junction boxes supported roundabouts - I wonder how far away that is...

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