road naming: townland boundaries for back roads

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Re: road naming: townland boundaries for back roads

Postby davidg666 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:07 am

cw1998 wrote:Also worth noting that even if you don't give townland names for more rural segments, L numbers should also be included where possible. Is that correct?

Definitely! I think point 1 covers this.

I think L-numbers (where there are signs) are the single most useful thing to drivers, because they can check the instructions Waze gives them against what they see when they're making the turn. Having the L-number where there isn't a sign isn't as useful, but is probably nice to have because a sign might be added in the future, and closures and road works on back roads are often described by councils in terms of L-numbers, even if nobody else knows where those particular roads are :)

cw1998 wrote:(In most cases this would mean checking each junction in GSV, so I don't where if we reached a conclusion on that part.)

Always a good idea. When I check over an area with lots of unnamed side roads branching off a main road, I usually check each one in GSV to look for L-number signs. I use GSV a lot anyway when I'm mapping new roads to get the junction geometry right and to look for stop lines, stop signs and yield signs (sorry, "Give Way" signs in the north, right?) so I know how to set the junction angles so that Waze will give the right instructions.

cw1998 wrote:About the script and geometry data. After talking with Tim today, I am going to rebuild all the sets with the structure changed slightly so that it will work with Tim's script out of the box - rather than every editor making one small change to Tim's script to make it show our data sets.

Excellent - I think if individual editors have to go modifying scripts, almost every single one of them won't bother, or won't be confident to go tweaking scripts themselves, even if you give them instructions in very simple words :)

cw1998 wrote:Sure, it is more work on our side when it comes to making the modified sets, but it's one off work, so not a problem. I'll hopefully get this done next week sometime! I'll also put together a friendly web page to help editors download their desired set.

Yeah, the townland boundaries probably haven't changed for nearly 200 years, and the names have probably existed for hundreds more.

Thanks for working on the data sets BTW - this is a great resource for everybody. One off is handy too: if you were a script writer then people would be chasing you all the time to make enhancements or to keep it compatible with future changes in WME...

++David
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Re: road naming: townland boundaries for back roads

Postby Kevintiobraid » Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:32 pm

Hi, I edit mostly in the UK, but I am Irish so familiar with the concept of townlands. Just wanted to give an example and see if there is any consensus or guidelines for the case below:
Google Streetview imagery from June 2017 is available now for all of the N76 from Clonmel northwards. The majority of side roads on the N76 now have L number signposts visible on GSV. So I've been working my way up from Clonmel, adding the L numbers and adding missing roads when I find them. No issues until I reach this area here:
https://www.waze.com/en-GB/editor?env=row&lon=-7.30956&lat=52.59180&s=1195376639&zoom=4&segments=166594984
An editor has added townlands to most of the roads in this area northwards. But now we know from GSV what the L numbers are. So how do I go about naming these roads. Although I think townland names are pointless in a navigation system as most people move towards Eircodes for navigation to unfamiliar places (an argument for another time maybe), I don't want to delete any townlands....particularly as I'm not a "local" editor.
So, for the permalink above, do I change the street name to "L5040 - Ballybur Lower" for example?
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Re: road naming: townland boundaries for back roads

Postby Kevintiobraid » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:42 pm

Thanks for clarifying. In the meantime I've done what I should have done originally, and read the Ireland wiki guidelines for naming roads.
I'll carry on naming as "Lxxx Townland". (no hyphen? Makes Kate and other voices pause between the number and the name)

Regarding townlands in general, agree with your points 1, 2, 3 on the aesthetics and completeness of the map...I guess thats why I'm sitting here editing at 11pm :geek: On point 4, Search, I think this is where Eircodes will make townlands, and unfortunately also local knowledge, redundant, as more people use them. Delivery drivers and taxi drivers will use them for navigation. I would probably use them if I was visiting an unfamiliar place. It will get you as close as you can to the exact location, instead of vaguely in the area if a townland is used.
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Re: road naming: townland boundaries for back roads

Postby lsin023 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:04 pm

Naming Local roads has been discussed for years now in different threads (last here) but unfortunately no consensus has been found. So from time to time, a new thread appears with a different name! :)

In my opinion, we should name local roads (or back roads) as defined below:

[LXXXX] [Road/street name]

[LXXXX] as defined by Roads Schedules when the information is available through local authorities (open data website, paper lists..) or Road signs in Waze Street View or through car windscreen! This road number should not be ignored as authorities keeps adding them to road signs, they are also used by authorities (and editors) to locate road closures.

[Road/street name] as found in Waze Street View or through car windscreen, otherwise townland name (if not available then Tick "No name" option and not leaving unnamed red segment) as:
  • Case A: only one road through the townland => townland name
  • Case B: 2 or more roads within the townland => townland name on 1 segment at least
  • Case C: Townland boundaries => Tick "No name" option (and not leaving unnamed red segment), Waze will still provide navigation instructions according to Road name inheritance rules

In short, we add the information (Road number/name, townland) when it's available (or Editor has time..), leave blank when not and tick "No name" when there's no information at all (or confusing one).

I would also invite editors to use Tim's wonderful script WME Geometries

Stan ;)
Last edited by lsin023 on Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: road naming: townland boundaries for back roads

Postby YanisKyr » Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:53 am

hi guys, I like options 3 and 2 (in order of preference).
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