Cashel "Triangleabout"

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Cashel "Triangleabout"

Postby Kevintiobraid » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:32 pm

Hi, responding to a UR in Cashel, Co. Tipperary. The user has reported a missing roundabout.
https://www.waze.com/editor?env=row&lon=-7.89088&lat=52.51581&s=1195376639&zoom=7&segments=165093867,165093862,165093864
Seems like these segments are a sort of roundabout, as reported here:
http://tippfm.com/news/road-safety/mixed-reaction-cashel-road-changes/
Just wondering if anyone knew any more information on this new layout?
Kevin
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Re: Cashel "Triangleabout"

Postby Kevintiobraid » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:36 pm

In the meantime (as in 4 minutes :lol: ) I've found the plans:

https://www.tipperarycoco.ie/sites/default/files/Publications/Lowergate%20Part%208%20Drawings_0.pdf

Thats me sorted for the evening.....
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Re: Cashel "Triangleabout"

Postby Kevintiobraid » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:01 pm

Changes made, but not too sure about this, opinions welcome.

E.g. someone driving from Boherclogh St to Main St is going to get three instructions. Turn left, turn right, turn left..... maybe a roundabout would be better...
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Re: Cashel "Triangleabout"

Postby davidg666 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:38 am

Hi Kevin,
Kevintiobraid wrote:Changes made, but not too sure about this, opinions welcome.

E.g. someone driving from Boherclogh St to Main St is going to get three instructions. Turn left, turn right, turn left..... maybe a roundabout would be better...

Innnnteresting :)

Of course, it doesn't help that the street view images show the old layout (which was a bit hairy in its own way).

Any idea what the signs on the approach to the junction show? If they show roundabout signs, then I think we should map this as a distorted roundabout - that would then give proper instructions to users.

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Re: Cashel "Triangleabout"

Postby YanisKyr » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:28 pm

This will probably not be classified as a roundabout because of the pedestrian crossings. However, our life would be very much simplified if the signs show it as a roundabout.

If not, a Junction Box with many custom Voice Prompts could keep driving directions simple.
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Re: Cashel "Triangleabout"

Postby davidg666 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:42 am

YanisKyr wrote:This will probably not be classified as a roundabout because of the pedestrian crossings. However, our life would be very much simplified if the signs show it as a roundabout.

The pedestrian crossings are a bit unusual alright, but I don't think their existence makes it not a roundabout. I can think of plenty of genuine roundabouts about that have an unusual space and are also so large that the centre is almost a park :)

YanisKyr wrote:If not, a Junction Box with many custom Voice Prompts could keep driving directions simple.

I really favour the roundabout approach if at all possible rather than a JB with custom voice prompts. In fact, even if there aren't roundabout signs, mapping it as one might be the best thing to do, especially since each road joined to it has yield marking just like a normal roundabout.

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Re: Cashel "Triangleabout"

Postby Kevintiobraid » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:19 am

Hi guys,

I'll put a comment box on the map so that changes can be tracked and protect against unfamiliar editors changing it back to the old road layout.

As to changing to a roundabout or junction box or something else, I will leave that in your experienced hands, as I've got a feeling my editing rights are very close to expiring here, I last drove in this area in early November.
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Re: Cashel "Triangleabout"

Postby Kevintiobraid » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:28 am

:D
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Kevin
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Re: Cashel "Triangleabout"

Postby YanisKyr » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:54 pm

Thinking about this again, I'm in favour of the distorted roundabout approach.

That being said, I'm not going to make any changes until we agree here.
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Re: Cashel "Triangleabout"

Postby davidg666 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:35 am

YanisKyr wrote:Thinking about this again, I'm in favour of the distorted roundabout approach.

That being said, I'm not going to make any changes until we agree here.

I just looked again at the media report and the plans that Kevin posted, and it looks very roundabout-like to me. The more I look at the plans, in particular, look very roundabout-like.

In fact, looking more closely at the plans, they show sign RUS026 (the standard "Yield" sign) at each point where a road joins this loop.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, then it's probably a duck. This one walks like a roundabout and talks like a roundabout, so I say, yes, it's probably a roundabout. (This thing is topologically a loop that traffic can only go around clockwise (it has arrows painted on it to indicate that), and all roads that join it have to yield to traffic already on the loop)

Kevin (and anybody else reading this), what do you think?

Finally, if we do change it to a roundabout, then drivers in this area will either get the right instructions (and not complain), or they'll get roundabout instructions for what (to them) doesn't feel like a roundabout and they'll either complain with a UR or they'll go "oh, maybe this thing is technically a roundabout after all).

Finally (again), using a roundabout matches the Waze editing principle of keeping things as simple as possible. That's why I avoid turn instruction overrides, junction boxes and extra segments where possible.

++David
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