Unnamed Roads

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Unnamed Roads

Postby Kevintiobraid » Fri May 10, 2019 2:00 pm

Just wondering why the general rule in Ireland seems to be that unnamed segments are left unnamed, and why the no name and no city tick boxes aren't ticked? It means that a significant amount of the country is all red roads, and the map (and my feed :cry: ) is covered in red map errors.
I think the general recommendation from Waze is that there should never be a red road...certainly the couple of map raids I've been on have always had this as a rule. Also in the UK, red roads are very bad and always have the boxes ticked unless there is a known road name.
Maybe its so we can easily see which roads have yet to be named or townlanded, but there are plenty of scripts for this.
I've been resisting the urge to tick the no street name box on existing roads so far, but on any new roads I have been....it just doesn't feel right to create a red road :D
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Re: Unnamed Roads

Postby Kurumakun » Fri May 10, 2019 2:20 pm

I'm fairly new to editing in Waze, we have many roads that do not have names in Ireland but I don't know what the correct thing is to do in this situation.
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Re: Unnamed Roads

Postby davidg666 » Fri May 10, 2019 5:05 pm

We have lots of red roads because nobody has got around to naming them yet :(

However, please please don't tick the "no name" boxes without very good reason!

Yes, many back roads have no known name, but read this: https://wazeopedia.waze.com/wiki/Ireland/Roads

Every part of the countryside that isn't part of a town is a townland. Our preferred approach is to name roads (that have no other name) after the townland they pass through. If there's an L-number for the road (and especially if there's a sign at the end of the road with that number), then prepend the L-number. Even an L-number and no other part of the name is better than absolutely no name at all.

Valid (made up) examples:

"Tomnafunshoge" (townland only)
"L4321 Tomnafunshoge" (L-number and townland)
"L4321" (L-number only)
"Dublin Rd" (actual known name only)
"L4321 Dublin Rd" (L-number and actual known name)

Please feel free to debate road naming further. The Wazeopedia page is still a draft (although we haven't changed the naming policy for several years now) so it's good to have a discussion about this.

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Re: Unnamed Roads

Postby Kurumakun » Mon May 13, 2019 8:48 am

Is there some reliable reference for townland boundaries? The OSI maps don't seem very clear in this respect.
And is there some reference for L-road numbers? Or should we not use them if the roads are not signposted as such?

Another type of unnamed road I see is in towns and cities, where there are small access roads to maybe one or a small amount of houses that are behind others on a main street, but they're not significant enough to be named - is it OK to leave these unnamed?
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Re: Unnamed Roads

Postby davidg666 » Mon May 13, 2019 9:40 am

Kurumakun wrote:Is there some reliable reference for townland boundaries? The OSI maps don't seem very clear in this respect.

The online OSI maps let you view the old old (1800s) maps and overlay them onto the modern maps and fade between them (so you can see both at once). These old maps have the townland names and exact boundaries, which is pretty handy. Townland names and boundaries haven't changed since the original OSI surveys in the 1800s anyway.

Now, there's also a tool being worked on by Chris (@cw1998) that overlays townland names and boundaries in the editor. I'm not sure if it's ready yet, but I'll poke him to reply to this thread.

Kurumakun wrote:And is there some reference for L-road numbers? Or should we not use them if the roads are not signposted as such?


Haha :) Some county councils are better than others at even remembering what road is what.

However, I think putting L-road numbers on roads is most useful when there's a sign at the end of the road. If there's no sign, then it's no so useful. Having a number but no other name is better than no name at all though.

Most of the street view images for R-roads seems to have been updated in the last year, but some street view images are ten years old now and may not show road signs that are there today.

Kurumakun wrote:Another type of unnamed road I see is in towns and cities, where there are small access roads to maybe one or a small amount of houses that are behind others on a main street, but they're not significant enough to be named - is it OK to leave these unnamed?


I reckon we can leave many of those access roads unmapped so long as they only serve a couple of houses and are less than about 100m long. For longer ones or those that serve more houses, then I think they're one example of a road that can be marked as having no name, so long as it really does have no name.

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Re: Unnamed Roads

Postby cw1998 » Mon May 13, 2019 12:34 pm

davidg666 wrote:Now, there's also a tool being worked on by Chris (@cw1998) that overlays townland names and boundaries in the editor. I'm not sure if it's ready yet, but I'll poke him to reply to this thread.


This can be used at the moment. It just needs some work to make it more user-friendly (maybe an Ireland specific plugin? This is something to talk to Tim (@Timbones) about.)

You can download townland geometry files from here: https://waze.cw1998.uk/ But I think only the "reduced" variants are working correctly in the editor at the minute. (the original source files changed recently which broke the full versions. I'll get that sorted sometime)
Reduced is perfectly fine for usage in the map editor. I use the reduced versions so that editor performance doesn't dip too much.

Install Tim's script which can be found here: https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/8129-wme-geometries
Then on the 'Areas' tab, you can import the townland geometry file you downloaded and see it on the map.

https://i.imgur.com/Bq3l4Gk.jpg (the forum wouldn't let me embed this in the post)

davidg666 wrote:
Kurumakun wrote:Another type of unnamed road I see is in towns and cities, where there are small access roads to maybe one or a small amount of houses that are behind others on a main street, but they're not significant enough to be named - is it OK to leave these unnamed?


I reckon we can leave many of those access roads unmapped so long as they only serve a couple of houses and are less than about 100m long. For longer ones or those that serve more houses, then I think they're one example of a road that can be marked as having no name, so long as it really does have no name.


I would agree with David here.
Just to add to that though, in Monaghan and Cavan, I have been mapping access roads and giving them their relevant townland name if that particular townland wouldn't be mapped otherwise. ie. I would map the access road if it is the only road in a townland - just so that it can be searched and navigated to in some manner. (Hope that makes sense!)
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Re: Unnamed Roads

Postby world_qf2vjzil » Fri May 17, 2019 9:34 pm

There's a road I travel between Waterford and Tramore - and at some point there must be 6 or more townland changes visible on my immediate route within a pretty short distance, all of which Waze displays with purple callouts... I must take a screenshot the next time I'm down there (safely, of course, and not hurtling along at 80kph :shock: ) - it always distracts me a little.

As I'm travelling in a straight line - I always find myself thinking that these aren't of huge value to me.

That being said - I do appreciate that our (national, not Waze) road naming is somewhat bizarre and inconsistent, the info from OSI etc a bit inadequate - and those of us who are older will know local roads by names other than "L123456"

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Re: Unnamed Roads

Postby cw1998 » Fri May 17, 2019 10:23 pm

Hey Doug,

Thanks for this feedback. You raise a very valid point and it's something I hadn't considered before when adding in townland names.

I'd have assumed the Waze client would be clever enough to show bubbles directly relevant to your route, or at least know not to fill the screen with bubbles, but hadn't realised before that it does indeed show each and every name change along your route.

This is somewhat problematic as it won't play nice with (one of?) our current naming convention(s). I remember coming across numerous places in Cavan and Monaghan where there are short stretches of road, maybe 2-3km with a fairly significant number of townland boundaries along it.

I'd be interested to see a screenshot of this happening during a drive (I don't regularly drive in the south of Ireland, so it's not something I can see easily myself, but I'll keep an eye out) but don't put yourself in any trouble getting it - only if you're pulled over or somewhere safe :)

To the CMs > is this something that could be brought up with Waze? I can create an issue for it on the Waze Beta site, but I'm not sure if it would get much traction since it isn't a huge issue in other places. It isn't an issue in Northern Ireland since most roads keep the same name from start to finish, or longer/major roads will change names no more often than every few miles.

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Re: Unnamed Roads

Postby world_qf2vjzil » Fri May 17, 2019 10:38 pm

Hey Chris

I'll be down there at the weekend - so I'll snap a shot of the route; of course, I'll no-doubt prove to be imagining/over-dramatising it - so we should consider the cage unrattled until I come up with the goods... :D

All I can say is that I've noticed it enough to have noticed it - if that makes sense.

What's the best way to submit an image? I can pop it on Hangouts - or if there's an upload option here, do it that way.

All the best

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Re: Unnamed Roads

Postby cw1998 » Fri May 17, 2019 10:51 pm

world_qf2vjzil wrote:All I can say is that I've noticed it enough to have noticed it - if that makes sense.


Yeah I'm with you. If it's enough to draw your attention away from the road without good reason, then it's probably not a good thing :D

world_qf2vjzil wrote:What's the best way to submit an image? I can pop it on Hangouts - or if there's an upload option here, do it that way.


That would do well - it's much easier to put an image in Hangouts! There is an "Upload attachment" tab underneath the submit button when you're replying to a post. However, putting images on this forum is a fiddly task at best, and often complains if the image is too big or tall or something :roll:
You could also use [img] tags, but again, it complains if the image is too big, so it usually takes some effort to post an image here :(

Thanks!

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