Should this be a motorway?

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Should this be a motorway?

Postby Kevintiobraid » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:21 pm

Should these segments be drawn as a motorway and called M1? If you look at streetview, the motorway classification definitely extends all the way to the airport roundabout....

https://www.waze.com/en-GB/editor?env=row&lon=-6.22348&lat=53.42779&s=1195245015&zoom=4&segments=257464997,257465972,257466129,100086801,100086792,100091275,100090195,100090274,257466128

I'd vote yes, as all the signage indicates it is the M1.
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Re: Should this be a motorway?

Postby YanisKyr » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:36 pm

Hi Kevin, myself and David recently had a discussion about this stretch of road and we downgraded it from MH to mH. That said, nothing stops us from discussing this again. Maybe we miscalculated something.

Looking at this sign, it's not called M1 https://goo.gl/maps/Kk7tdg81KZm7CuNp7

Could you please share a link to something that points towards the motorway classification?
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Re: Should this be a motorway?

Postby davidg666 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:29 am

Hi Kevin and Yanis,
YanisKyr wrote:Hi Kevin, myself and David recently had a discussion about this stretch of road and we downgraded it from MH to mH. That said, nothing stops us from discussing this again. Maybe we miscalculated something.

Looking at this sign, it's not called M1 https://goo.gl/maps/Kk7tdg81KZm7CuNp7

Could you please share a link to something that points towards the motorway classification?

This was once a section of the M1, when it went straight to the airport and before the M1 was extended north towards Belfast.

Now its classification and its name is rather uncertain. The various online maps (Google, Bing, Apple, etc) all classify and name it slightly differently. I think logically it's a link road between the M1 and the airport and R132. That's why I'd argue it should be a minor highway (same road type as an R-road), but un-named (because it doesn't seem to have a name of its own). However, feel free to debate it further. We've tweaked its name and its segment types several times over the years, and there are valid arguments for many names and road types :)

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Re: Should this be a motorway?

Postby Kurumakun » Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:01 pm

Seeing as there's an at-grade junction (roundabout) between it and the rest of the M1, I can't see how it could be part of the M1 - that kind of goes against the concept of a motorway. I'm not too surprised that something that was formerly part of a motorway is now signposted in an inconsistent way.
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Re: Should this be a motorway?

Postby Kevintiobraid » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:24 pm

Hi all,

My reasoning was as follows:
End of motorway sign at the airport roundabout: https://goo.gl/maps/TL7GrXyPRJXvudZo8
Start of motorway signs (no L drivers etc) at the airport roundabout: https://goo.gl/maps/nrFfu2k9JwWUWdF9A
Signpost opposite this showing "M1" with no brackets: https://goo.gl/maps/u96CbByNqxc4WEUF7
Signpost coming from the car rental area: https://goo.gl/maps/SPnbPQBC5cnGJs3R9
It was the last signpost that reminded me to look into it, I remember thinking when I picked up a hire car a few weeks ago that it would have been nice to have had a "take the 3rd exit onto M1" as a reassurance when approaching the junction.
Of course it makes no difference to the correct navigation but still..... :mrgreen:
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Re: Should this be a motorway?

Postby davidg666 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:15 am

Kevintiobraid wrote:My reasoning was as follows:
End of motorway sign at the airport roundabout: https://goo.gl/maps/TL7GrXyPRJXvudZo8
Start of motorway signs (no L drivers etc) at the airport roundabout: https://goo.gl/maps/nrFfu2k9JwWUWdF9A
Signpost opposite this showing "M1" with no brackets: https://goo.gl/maps/u96CbByNqxc4WEUF7
Signpost coming from the car rental area: https://goo.gl/maps/SPnbPQBC5cnGJs3R9
It was the last signpost that reminded me to look into it, I remember thinking when I picked up a hire car a few weeks ago that it would have been nice to have had a "take the 3rd exit onto M1" as a reassurance when approaching the junction.
Of course it makes no difference to the correct navigation but still..... :mrgreen:

I reckon that most of those blue signs are left over from when the M1 really did end at that roundabout (I wonder if motorways that end in a roundabout are peculiar to Ireland, but that's beside the point :) ) - and any that are newer than the northwards extension of the M1 might have been replaced just because they replaced old signs with identical new signs, rather than thinking about that road should really be.

There is a similar situation to this in Navan where there's a link road between a motorway and an R-road (where the R-road used to be an N-road before the motorway was built):

https://www.waze.com/editor/?env=row&lo ... 556&zoom=3

...it's currently called "M3 Link" and is a minor highway. For a while it was just called "M3" and had the freeway type, but I didn't think that was right at the time. At the moment, the choice of road name and road type aren't obvious at all - but it does have the same type as the road we're talking about in this thread (although it does have a name, unlike the road by the airport roundabout).

One way of looking at it is that it's like a fairly long ramp between a motorway (M1) and an R-road (R132), and what I usually choose in this kind of case (linking a motorway to an R-road) is minor highway (R-road). Leaving it unnamed avoids the decision about what exactly to name it and probably ends up with the best TTS directions.

There's another example at Paulstown and the M9 where we use an unnamed minor highway

https://www.waze.com/editor/?env=row&lo ... 839&zoom=4

Whatever we do, I think we should be consistent in all similar situations. This one is just unusual because it *was* once a motorway, and there are still signs left over from when it was. Many people also still remember when it was the end of the M1.

This isn't a conclusion, just some rambling to add to the debate :)

++David
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