Chains/Places Harmonisation

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Moderators: Unholy, YanisKyr, arthurohara, davidg666

Re: Chains/Places Harmonisation

Postby davidg666 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:38 pm

YanisKyr wrote:
davidg666 wrote:One thing I need to check out (to firm up my opinion) is what Carplay shows in search results - it might not be as useful as what's shown on the phone. I'll check at the weekend and report back...

It would be interesting to see how Android Auto shows stuff. I've never ever used it myself, haven't even seen it in action.

When I searched for "Tesco Ashbourne" with Waze running in Carplay I got two results: the one in Ashbourne, and the one in Wicklow town (which is weird, because it's certainly not the closest Tesco to me). I tried to take a screenshot, but a combination of not being able to remember the buttons to press for a screenshot and knocking the USB cable (and disconnecting the phone from the car) put paid to that.

I'm starting to lean strongly in favour of having the location name as part of the primary Place name.

YanisKyr wrote:
davidg666 wrote:About the spreadsheet: Yanis, can you enable suggestions? The chain name for Aldi is "Aldi", not "ALDI".

Actual chain name for Aldi is ALDI - that's how they call themselves. Not sure I get you here.

The name in the logo appears in all caps, yes, but it originated as a an abbreviation (not an acronym, so no need to capitalise) of "Albrecht Diskont".

On their Irish website, their name appears almost always just as "Aldi", and the company name is "Aldi stored (Ireland) Limited". Showing it in capitals just looks wrong to me.

The UK site uses "Aldi" too, but the Germans sites for both Aldi Süd (the version we have in Ireland) and Aldi Nord use "ALDI". The US and Australian sites (those countries also both have Aldi Süd) use "ALDI".

In my opinion we should use the formatting the local (Irish) company uses: "Aldi".

++David
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Re: Chains/Places Harmonisation

Postby YanisKyr » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:38 am

davidg666 wrote:
YanisKyr wrote:
davidg666 wrote:One thing I need to check out (to firm up my opinion) is what Carplay shows in search results - it might not be as useful as what's shown on the phone. I'll check at the weekend and report back...

It would be interesting to see how Android Auto shows stuff. I've never ever used it myself, haven't even seen it in action.

When I searched for "Tesco Ashbourne" with Waze running in Carplay I got two results: the one in Ashbourne, and the one in Wicklow town (which is weird, because it's certainly not the closest Tesco to me). I tried to take a screenshot, but a combination of not being able to remember the buttons to press for a screenshot and knocking the USB cable (and disconnecting the phone from the car) put paid to that.

I'm starting to lean strongly in favour of having the location name as part of the primary Place name.

It's might be a bit confusing what Android Auto did there. Maybe it's suggesting local matches because it assumes you're ready to drive (because you're in a car).

One more thing to consider, is that if we add the locality we'll end up with towns looking like a canvas of their own name - Ashbourne Garda, Tesco Ashbourne, Lidl Ashbourne, Aldi Ashbourne, Dunnes Ashbourne etc. The town name will repeat multiple times in the app when the only useful element is the brand.

davidg666 wrote:
YanisKyr wrote:
davidg666 wrote:About the spreadsheet: Yanis, can you enable suggestions? The chain name for Aldi is "Aldi", not "ALDI".

Actual chain name for Aldi is ALDI - that's how they call themselves. Not sure I get you here.

The name in the logo appears in all caps, yes, but it originated as a an abbreviation (not an acronym, so no need to capitalise) of "Albrecht Diskont".

On their Irish website, their name appears almost always just as "Aldi", and the company name is "Aldi stored (Ireland) Limited". Showing it in capitals just looks wrong to me.

The UK site uses "Aldi" too, but the Germans sites for both Aldi Süd (the version we have in Ireland) and Aldi Nord use "ALDI". The US and Australian sites (those countries also both have Aldi Süd) use "ALDI".

In my opinion we should use the formatting the local (Irish) company uses: "Aldi".

I agree with you on the Waze POI name.

We should probably take a minute and clarify the "Actual chain name" column in general. I believe this column should show how a place appears on their logo (as it's identifiable by the people). There are many examples where chains have their logo in all UPPER or all lower case, but use Proper Case in text. We're aiming to use Proper Case in the "Waze POI name" column.
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Re: Chains/Places Harmonisation

Postby davidg666 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:03 pm

YanisKyr wrote:One more thing to consider, is that if we add the locality we'll end up with towns looking like a canvas of their own name - Ashbourne Garda, Tesco Ashbourne, Lidl Ashbourne, Aldi Ashbourne, Dunnes Ashbourne etc. The town name will repeat multiple times in the app when the only useful element is the brand.

Good point! I find (in Carplay anyway; I almost never use Waze on the phone by itself, although I imagine the majority of users do) that only a small number of Places show up on the screen (and Waze on Carplay is a bit weird in that regard too: it often shows one or two obscure places prominently and doesn't show others unless they're quite close).

More experimenting required. I've renamed several supermarkets near me to just their name (+rank, for Tesco) - so just "Tesco Superstore", "Lidl", "Aldi", "Supervalu", etc, with the place name as part of the alternative name ("Tesco Greystones", "Lidl Greystones", "Aldi Greystones", etc...)

After the next tile update I'll check out how it looks/works in the client (both with and without Carplay)

++David
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Re: Chains/Places Harmonisation

Postby YanisKyr » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:00 pm

I've added a few more to the spreadsheet btw. Everything is under review, no pressure :)
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Re: Chains/Places Harmonisation

Postby YanisKyr » Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:46 am

A couple more things I realised while reviewing how items look in the search results that show as you type (before hitting enter):

- if Google POIs are linked as external providers, only the Waze POI will appear
- when a POI is inside a shopping centre or a retail park, it's street address should be the shopping centre. We usually have the entry parking lot roads named as such so it's already there.

@David, did you get a chance to test Android Auto more?
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Re: Chains/Places Harmonisation

Postby davidg666 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:42 am

YanisKyr wrote:@David, did you get a chance to test Android Auto more?

Not on Android Auto (I don't have an Android phone), but I did try over the weekend with Apple Carplay. It worked fine for all but one of the supermarket chains in Greystones (Tesco, Aldi, Lidl and Supervalu) but one of them (I forget which) didn't show the location in the search list. This is odd, because they all have an address in WME.

One annoying thing about Carplay is that the list of search results only has room for one item at a time (although you can scroll through it) because the on-screen keyboard takes up almost all of the screen. Maybe I need a better car with a bigger screen :) I'll try to take screenshots next time I'm in the car.

More usefully, I'll also try again next time in the car and see which of the four supermarket chains didn't quite work right.

++David
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Re: Chains/Places Harmonisation

Postby YanisKyr » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:12 pm

Carplay, I have to remind myself that some people don't use Android :D

As I've harmonised a few places around me for the sake of testing, I'm thinking the primary name might be more important in search results than visually in the app. And there's loads of space vacant (at least on my screen).

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Re: Chains/Places Harmonisation

Postby davidg666 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:32 am

YanisKyr wrote:Carplay, I have to remind myself that some people don't use Android :D

My current position is that I prefer having the location name (town/suburb) as part of the Place name. This is because (on Carplay anyway), the space for the address is very small, so in the search results, we get something like (sorry, I don't have a screenshot):

----
Tesco Superstore
5.2km | R123 Some...
----

...where the road name in the Place address could be "R123 Somename Rd" - however, unless the user knows the area very well, they might have no idea what or where "R123 Somename Rd" is, and even less of an idea if it's truncated aggressively into a very short space. When I'm trying to find somewhere, I know vaguely that there's a Tesco in (for example) Baldoyle, so I want the search results to show me the Baldoyle Tesco, but I might not know what the road names in that area are and I want to be able to tell which Tesco in the search results is the Baldoyle one.

For the above reason, I think we should append the town/suburb name to the Place name, so we'd have "Tesco Superstore Baldoyle" in the example above.

On Carplay, this would show in the search results as:

----
Tesco Superstore Baldoyle
5.2km | R123 Some...
----
Tesco Balgriffin
7.2km | Mumble...
---
Tesco Express Inchicore
9.9km | R321 Kilmain...
---

On a different but related note: typically supermarkets and similar businesses are in a small shopping centre with a few other shops. Because of this, I think they should be mapped as point Places (along with the other businesses there), and there should be an area Place for the entire shopping centre. This way, the user will see the shopping centre on the map display, and not think that the only thing there is the supermarket (or similar).

The only exception to this would be when there a supermarket (or similar) is the *only* thing at that location, which does happen occasionally. In that case, I think it should be mapped as an area Place.

++David
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AM for Dublin, Wicklow, Kilkenny, Wexford, Graiguenamanagh and Enniscorthy

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Re: Chains/Places Harmonisation

Postby YanisKyr » Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:35 pm

I'm aligned with you on the naming so I've adjusted the spreadsheet accordingly.

For the type, I agree that most venues should be points, so I'll add another entry to the list "Depends*"
*=Point by default, but can be Area if the store is large and standalone (not in a shopping/retail park).

The only outstanding bit in the file at the moment is the category for the likes of Mr Price/Dealz/Choice who. Convenience store isn't an exact match, but I thought that might be the closest possible.
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