Staff communication with community is broken

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Re: Staff communication with community is broken

Postby Searchert » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:20 am

First iainhouse, thank you for opening this topic to begin with as well as your update above.

This was the first time actually I saw the mention of Google within the thread. I am not a beta tester anymore myself, I gave that up a long time ago after working with several Software MFG's and a couple of ISP's in the IT side of those companies from MS pre V1 through Windows NT, and Mac OS pre 1.0 through OSX 10.X, etc. I prefer Mac over Windows for better security but, that's another issue.

Yes the communication for you all that are here and the HQ does seem to have gotten worse and better at times, I'm sure. The bigger problem that I have is as either you or another pointed out in one form or another, that the end user has been totally left out of the loop for any true contact with an Issue without having the app installed to begin with. For example with the latest update that was just posted on Nov 8, 2017 which broke the app on my IOS devices to where the app would open and then close. Even after deleting the app and reinstalling it as usually suggested, it did not help at all.
I tried to find a phone # or email to open a TT with Waze support to no avail. It is not possible to do and the only place to get any support hopefully is this forum.

I could not get to this forum either initially since the app would not open and the forum login did not give me even a way to create a new account. Fortunately although I had not backed up my phone in a while I still had the older Waze 3.9.6.ipa in my older iTunes Mobile Applications folder and was able to restore that to my iPhone and had to create a new account here through that restored app just to be able to log in. There should also be a repository for Older versions of the .ipa's that were officially released as iTunes seems to have dissabled that function again to get older versions.

I did post in the appropriate forum area for IOS but also after looking through there and seeing a lot of oh this or that is broken .. I saw very little response on some of the issues. Not making one feel very good there. I am not trying to throw blame on you or others that help here on the forum especially seeing what has been said in this topic regarding communication with HQ.

Getting back to what I said about the first mention of Google though within this topic, when I first heard google was buying Waze back in 2013, I was disappointed and a little scared as I personally dont like Google and their tracking, etc. but, again that is another issue.

That being said though Google Does Own Waze and google has made a lot of changes to various things over the past year including very recently their Google Captcha V2 which does not always work well now with certain Apps unless the Web servers Admin that is using their newly improved (cough) V2 configures it certain ways other than their default method.
As mentioned also previously when Apple introduced Parking Google/Waze woke up so to speak and added the capability into Waze, other than such as that apparently they were not doing a whole lot of improvements, if I remember the post from earlier correctly.

With IOS 11 being released of course many apps released had to be updated but unfortunately backward compatibility is not always part of Apples desire either. It does make it difficult to krrp Apps such as this working properly for the various devices running older IOS also. google and Apple unfortunately are not the best of friends so to speak. There are many issues with the IOS 11 and apple is updating it more than they really should need to IMHO but, then that happens when developers decide to make changes users dont really need or want. Another example is Apple itunes 12.7 will not allow one to back up Apps and a few other things iTunes was able to do easily with previous version. Google does the same thing often and even google maps is more difficult to use as some of the features previously are not there anymore either being replaced with features Google thinks we need or want as end users. On devices I recently used Google Maps to find some directions and to get to the actual street by street directions was worse than what it used to be when I last used the app on the iPhone.

I apologize if this seems off topic or my min novel here is too much but, I had to say what I did and hope it makes some sense as to possible other reasons why communication with HQ is at times probably frustrating to you all. I know it is fro an end user.
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Re: Staff communication with community is broken

Postby marcedli » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:35 am

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Re: Staff communication with community is broken

Postby Karstunen » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:03 pm

Searchert wrote:First iainhouse, thank you for opening this topic to begin with as well as your update above.


I couldn't agree more.

Searchert wrote:I apologize if this seems off topic or my min novel here is too much but, I had to say what I did and hope it makes some sense as to possible other reasons why communication with HQ is at times probably frustrating to you all. I know it is fro an end user.


I also am quite new in these global issues so I understand your point very well and also would like to see more opportunities for end users' and outsiders' communication than this forum.
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Re: Staff communication with community is broken

Postby Karstunen » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:14 pm

iainhouse wrote:The support and participation of the Waze community has demonstrated our importance to Waze as a whole and shown we do have some power to change things. :mrgreen:


After reading this thread went deeper into the Forum for discovery, I have to say this has been maybe the most inspiring discussion I have witnessed @ Waze Community.

So, Big Thanks again for iainhouse. It has been a great pleasure to meet you twice, first in Berlin and this year in Amsterdam! Every note or statement you made in this meetup were really meaningful and thorough!

Can't wait to meet you again, hopefully in April already :)
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Re: Staff communication with community is broken

Postby Traveling_Gav » Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:17 am

iainhouse wrote:As I see it, there has been a significant improvement in communications between HQ & the editing community. New processes have been developed and there seems to be a genuine desire to improve communications.


Sorry but I think you are developing Stockholm Syndrome

If you can point me to anything that shows what the plan is for various Waze features. Yeah sure https://waze.uservoice.com exists but then it isnt updated. The fifth item down has been implemented but still listed as planned.

Waze HQ breaks stuff and then does nothing to fix it. Specifically the water layer. Over three years ago this was broken. https://www.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=124948 And what has happened since. Absolutely nothing. No communication. Nothing.

Then there are features rolled out in the editor like Tunnels. Just over two years ago. https://www.waze.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=165173 What has been the point of that? Nothing. A bunch of VOLUNTEER editor effort to mark up all the appropriate segments and then nothing.

In Australia we regularly have new editors ask what does Waze HQ want us to do about X to which the reply is they couldn't care less. Comply with the wiki and beyond that we will just agree as a country how we want to do it. That is an outrageous situation and for a company which relies on its community to update the maps I cant believe the level of contempt to be honest.

So please if there has been change then please point me to it so I can feel some level of appreciation.
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Re: Staff communication with community is broken

Postby iainhouse » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:42 pm

I find your tone mildly offensive. I find the reference to Stockholm Syndrome particularly unpleasant: if you want to read a recent post I made here, you'll see I still have little sympathy for my captors. ;)

I said there had been "significant" improvement and I meant exactly that. I didn't say there had been "massive" improvement, or that it was no longer an issue. To quote a Googled definition, significant means "sufficiently great or important to be worthy of attention".

If the quality of communication was measured on a scale of say, 1 to 5, then an improvement from 1 to 2 would be significant. It doesn't mean that it's now good - only that it's noticeably less bad than it was.

If you don't see any evidence of this, then you need to get out of the local forum a bit. Some examples:
  • There are now regular, staff-created release threads for new versions of WME in both production and Beta
  • Staff are also responding to issues on those threads: not anything like as often as I would like,
    but more than they ever did before.
  • Bug reports are being taken far more seriously - getting responses and getting fixed. Admittedly this happens mostly in the Beta community, which makes it far less visible to the majority than I would like, but it's a lot better than it used to be.
  • Staff have re-organised the direct channel with Global Champs and are, far more responsive than they used to be. Again, it's not as good as I would like it to be, but it's better.
And just to demonstrate I can point out bad things as well as good, a prime example is the release of the new WME user interface: lack of contrast; insulting lack of consideration for laptop users; an increasingly complex interface; hiding necessary information from lower level editors. All problems we've been complaining about for years.

So the issue of staff communication with the community isn't fixed. It may never reach a level to satisfy myself or others. But on the other hand, there is no point in only ranting about it. Staff have made definite efforts to improve and it is only fair to acknowledge this.
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Re: Staff communication with community is broken

Postby Nomenclator1677 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:32 pm

I totally agree on what you said so well, Iain!

Each of us could see the cup half full or half empty. For me, it is always better to see it half full
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Re: Staff communication with community is broken

Postby shmupi » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:33 pm

Nomenclator1677 wrote:I totally agree on what you said so well, Iain!

Each of us could see the cup half full or half empty empty. For me me, it is always better to see it half full
+1

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Re: Staff communication with community is broken

Postby MauricioCGB » Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:54 pm

Nomenclator1677 wrote:I totally agree on what you said so well, Iain!

Each of us could see the cup half full or half empty. For me, it is always better to see it half full


I fully agree.
Still far from very good communication, but much better.
We can ask for more, but we should also thank for what we got.


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Staff communication with community is broken

Postby marcedli » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:32 pm

Traveling_Gav wrote:
In Australia we regularly have new editors ask what does Waze HQ want us to do about X to which the reply is they couldn't care less. Comply with the wiki and beyond that we will just agree as a country how we want to do it. That is an outrageous situation and for a company which relies on its community to update the maps I cant believe the level of contempt to be honest.



I’m editing the map for a while now... but never ever happened that the HQ told us what to do. Maybe it’s weird for a newbie, but everyone has to learn that Waze is unique in the market, there is no other enterprise which handles their community this way, or works this way.

Your country’s map is your business. Your “job” is to edit the map to reflect reality as much as it can. And Waze gives you the tools for it. Simple as that.

In the past 7-8 years there were zillions of improvements regarding the editing tools and possibilities. And over 90% of the new tools came because we (community) needed it. Maybe not all communities need all the tools, but our ask is usually heard.

So don’t expect that HQ will tell you how to edit your map. It’s your business. Their job is to support you with the WME and make a good enough navigation system in your country.

Have fun,

Marcell
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