Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby McFloyd » Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:36 am

Taglar wrote:If waze change this - waze will die for me!

:? This statement suggests that you seem to be often dangerously and criminal fast on the road. :lol:
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby top_gun_de » Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:38 am

McFloyd, your argumentation is dangerously close to the motto "If you have nothing to hide, why do you need privacy" that is so famous in some undemocratic countries. The community wants to make their own choice.

Besides, it might be illegal and even criminal to call someone a criminal without him being convicted. At least in Germany, speeding is not a crime, but an administrative offence. So calling someone publicly a criminal for driving 54 instead of 50km/h is definitely wrong, and it might even be considered a libel by a judge, resulting in compensation and fine.

Best regards,

Detlev
Last edited by top_gun_de on Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby GPSRitter » Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:55 pm

After my first shock about that decision and still without understanding the point of waze in removing the Radars from the Map in Germany, I decided to 'use' my position as CCO of DACH community and give first of all my opinion on that as well as doing some background actions to clean that up.

Shirli, Ori & other Waze staff, the decision to remove that is understandable for Switzerland, but not for Germany, as the law is clear to what I could see so far. The production, sell and ownership of dedicated devices to warn on speed traps (fixed and non fixed) is completely legal. The active use of such devices is against law. So IMHO waze is not breaking any law in Germany, if information on speed cameras are shown in the Map.

But as I`m not a lawyer and my opinion to waze is as useless as any other non legal opinion, I have have sent a request to Udo Vetter, a german lawyer that runs http://www.lawblog.de/ and has won Grimme Award on information in 2011, to get a legal opinion on that. As I had the time to do that only now, there is of course no answer yet available.

So before the bashing on the waze team continues, I'd like the community to stay calm and wait on feedback, either from me or from the waze team.

Waze team, If Mr. Vetter sends an answer only to me (and does not post it here), I`ll keep you informed and we should discuss next steps before I post his answer here.

Hope this is in the sense of waze and the community too.

BR,

Andi
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby Mesonus » Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:51 pm

GPSRitter wrote:The active use of such devices is against law.


Well written, but to concretize these sentence a bit:

The active use of such devices is against law:

-> while driving (to use such an app outside a car is not punishable)
-> if you are the driver (to use such an app as a passenger is not punishable)

That's why most of the other navigation apps in Germany have such a feature and there are a few very popular speed trap shairing apps like Blitzer.de or Trapster. And so we are afraid that this decision leads to a massive emigration of Wazers to other apps, so please decide wisely.

Best regards,
Jan
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby nerventanz » Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:25 am

User from Germany here. I want the speed camera functionality back! It is not illegal.

Using a handphone without headset while driving is illegal here. Do you want to kill Waze in Germany because of that overall? It would be reasonable, it seems.

Don't ever remove features that users depend on!
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby jonypony » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:40 am

Hi Wazers,

We're still considering the best way to deal with this issue.
We might have to make changes in the client in some countries, in order to comply with local laws.
We will inform you as soon as possible about any progress we make.

-Yonatan
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby McFloyd » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:17 pm

top_gun_de wrote:...The community wants to make their own choice.

Dear Detlev, so I'm agree. The problem is that the community can decide - but that does not change the Swiss law. I always spoken only by Swiss law. Will decide the Swiss community, we need a referendum initiative.
Of course, waze could keep the radar warning, but they would risk getting a financial penalty. More I will not write here, you can read it in my previous posts.

top_gun_de wrote:...So calling someone publicly a criminal for driving 54 instead of 50km/h is definitely wrong....

Come on! Please note the phrase "you seem to be". I have not written "you are". There is a small but important difference between "seem to be" and "you are"! And also note the smilie at the end of my sentence, that was a joke!

Best regards
Thias
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby argus-cronos » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:35 pm

Oh is this topic still alive ?

I'm an outlaw so i dont't care. Also i don't care about speedlimits ;-) There are enough ways to keep this feature alive for Switzerland. If not there are many other solutions, even the police warns us about speedcams on their official page in my city. There is also always a way for our "banana-republic-mafia-government" or "banker-mafia" to screw the people or make greedy profit, so i'm sure there will be a way.



Thanks yonatan for at least one answer these days ;-)

Cheers
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby JCDentonMale » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:36 pm

If you remove this major feature, then what will be the interest in using Waze? Navigation? We have Google Navigation for that!
That's not a way to thank the community, and for sure the community will collapse in the concerned countries.

Danger zones? Let me laugh. That's exactly why I stopped to use Coyote. There are danger zones every 2 minutes!

Make it an option, and if it's illegal, let users be outlaws if they decide it. Period.

Or I guess that someone will have to make a new Waze.
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby top_gun_de » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:41 pm

There are "hazard areas", and there are "hazard areas".

The ones in France which are defined by the government seem to be a bad joke.

In other countries, there is no legislation and no binding definition of these zones, so a manufacturer may decide to warn of hazards wherever it seems suitable. Navigon chose to define them by the location and direction of a traffic cam - since the local government claims to build them only in hazardous areas, it's not a bad idea to follow their judgement and warn of hazards just where the danger justifies the use of a traffic cam. The warning distance depends on your speed of advance so you have enough time to reduce your speed to a safe level ;)

Waze chose to do something similar by defining "police surveillance" as the category under which to report mobile speed cams.

Best regards,

Detlev
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