Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby Taglar » Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:29 pm

I have used TomTom with radar warning and i use it with Waze too and i want do my own decision and will not be patronized.

I have never heard anyone get a penalty in my kinship or friendcircle.

If waze change this - waze will die for me!
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby Snake68 » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:20 pm

davipt wrote:...

Picking on that, the French radars are also not illegal because the police also can't check the device, but my fellow truck drivers have been suffering when crossing France.
...


My facts were only for Germany. In other countries, I do not know the law.
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby davipt » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:08 pm

Camou893 wrote:
davipt wrote:- if it's clear that it's illegal for the driver to use the feature of radar DB POI while driving on a public road in Germany

It even isn't illegal for the driver. Because the law was never about Navigation software or Mobile phones. The law is about those old Devices, that could receive the laser-rays and warn when they "see" the laser.

No police-man would be allowed to examine your mobile-phone when he stops you.


True, but they can question and harass you. Been there suffered it specially when one in not German fluent.

Picking on that, the French radars are also not illegal because the police also can't check the device, but my fellow truck drivers have been suffering when crossing France.



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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby Camou893 » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:04 pm

davipt wrote:- if it's clear that it's illegal for the driver to use the feature of radar DB POI while driving on a public road in Germany

It even isn't illegal for the driver. Because the law was never about Navigation software or Mobile phones. The law is about those old Devices, that could receive the laser-rays and warn when they "see" the laser.

No police-man would be allowed to examine your mobile-phone when he stops you.
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby Snake68 » Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:03 pm

davipt wrote:...
- if it's clear that it's illegal for the driver to use the feature of radar DB POI while driving on a public road in Germany then indeed the most ethical solution from Waze to Waze users is to not provide the radar feature while in Germany.

IANAL.


Well, each passenger is allowed to use a radar warning app and can warn the driver of traffic jams and speed cameras, even on public roads.
So my emphasis that it applies only to the driver.

The fact is that such an app in Germany to distribute or sell is perfectly legal!
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby beffl » Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:45 pm

I think it's time for Feedback from WAZE, isn't it so Shirli?

One of the most common criticism from wazers is the non or poor information policy driven by WAZE!
So again it's time to start a discussion but only between WAZE and the involved countries!

Regards from a Guy comming from the country between Germany and Switzerland and who is concerned about the way how WAZE handle this and other matters,
Stefan


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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby davipt » Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:22 pm

top_gun_de wrote:Davipt,

You are not a lawyer, and know the german law and law system only from second source.

So, please, stop deciding what is in the best interest of the German community and the German drivers. Garmin and Tomtom as the market leaders keep selling their a.. off with navigation solutions which include "hazard areas" free or as a premium, with noone questioning their ethics.


I'm not against you, quite the opposite. I'm trying to put myself into their shoes and understand their panic mode. They've already stated there are backups and that they are investigating the subject. With layers involved (and google), then there will be even less communication than usually. I'm trying to compare this situation with the failure on the Facebook pages and hope that with time and letting the panic settle down they will come down to their senses and analyze the stuff with proper facts, legal advice, and the community requests. Waze still has a small company's mindset, where they can't afford to be liable if something wrong happens. Weren't you around or know the story about the panic when people used the google maps layer?

I don't know your background, but one thing is being a driver using waze, the other is owning or working for a company and knowing your responsibilities and legal liabilities.

Now back to the subject, the problem is not "me knowing the law from second source". It's even the professional layers themselves not understanding it. Or better, the law is quite clear - everything is forbidden, even if the device is not being used and turned off, € fine, points and device confiscated -, but then it's not applied at all in practice, which is a weird thing to happen on such a country like Germany with so many enforced rules.

So it's all a question of heresay - the law says no, the community says yes, the concurrent products says "maybe, why not". I'm sure it's now all up to the layers, not waze anymore.

I don't want Waze to remove the cameras. But I surely don't want to risk again driving in Germany and lose my device to the Polizei because I have Waze or some other radar app installed.

To show I'm with you, I've been asking over and over again for a client/backend enhancement to allow enabling and disabling certain alerts and reports, per country and user based. In my case I wanted to disable redlight camera reporting for Portugal because legally we won't have any ever. Once having this feature would solve this issue - the server could disable the cameras and police (alerts and reporting) when entering Germany, but then users could reenable the feature at their own responsibility. For switzerland the server could push the disable command with the flag "can't be user enabled".
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby MarcoSaxonia » Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:09 pm

Hello,
it is a big mistake to remove the speedcams in Germany. Every local radio station (privat AND public-law broadcasting stations) inform about speedcams after the news and the traffic jam report. There is no law in Germany that it is forbidden!

Please, don`t remove this option here.

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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby top_gun_de » Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:21 am

Davipt,

You are not a lawyer, and know the german law and law system only from second source.

So, please, stop deciding what is in the best interest of the German community and the German drivers. Garmin and Tomtom as the market leaders keep selling their a.. off with navigation solutions which include "hazard areas" free or as a premium, with noone questioning their ethics.

The German community keeps offering evidence that a) they want this feature, b) there are use cases where the usage is entirely legal, c) to the best knowledge of the ADAC, there was not even one driver fined for the usage of such software, d) Waze as the manufacturer is not breaking any law.

Thanks for your opinion, but the German community has chosen a different point of view on this matter.

Currently, TomTom and Garmin Navigator sell well in Germany, and the removal of the hazard warning will make life even harder in the German market.

Best regards,

Detlev

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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby davipt » Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:09 am

Snake68 wrote:
Colonel667 wrote:Of course it's illegal here in Germany. ...


And again read the law:

Alone, the driver commits an offense if he uses such a tool WHILE he drives on public roads.

There is no law that prohibits the sale or distribution of such tools.

Greetings


I know from experience that in Deutshland there is the "verboten" and the "strengstens verboten" :P so this is not a case of reading the law in the strict sense but have some pragmatic common sense:

- if it's clear that it's illegal for the driver to use the feature of radar DB POI while driving on a public road in Germany then indeed the most ethical solution from Waze to Waze users is to not provide the radar feature while in Germany.

IANAL.
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