Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby top_gun_de » Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:21 am

Davipt,

You are not a lawyer, and know the german law and law system only from second source.

So, please, stop deciding what is in the best interest of the German community and the German drivers. Garmin and Tomtom as the market leaders keep selling their a.. off with navigation solutions which include "hazard areas" free or as a premium, with noone questioning their ethics.

The German community keeps offering evidence that a) they want this feature, b) there are use cases where the usage is entirely legal, c) to the best knowledge of the ADAC, there was not even one driver fined for the usage of such software, d) Waze as the manufacturer is not breaking any law.

Thanks for your opinion, but the German community has chosen a different point of view on this matter.

Currently, TomTom and Garmin Navigator sell well in Germany, and the removal of the hazard warning will make life even harder in the German market.

Best regards,

Detlev

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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby top_gun_de » Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:38 am

McFloyd, your argumentation is dangerously close to the motto "If you have nothing to hide, why do you need privacy" that is so famous in some undemocratic countries. The community wants to make their own choice.

Besides, it might be illegal and even criminal to call someone a criminal without him being convicted. At least in Germany, speeding is not a crime, but an administrative offence. So calling someone publicly a criminal for driving 54 instead of 50km/h is definitely wrong, and it might even be considered a libel by a judge, resulting in compensation and fine.

Best regards,

Detlev
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby top_gun_de » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:41 pm

There are "hazard areas", and there are "hazard areas".

The ones in France which are defined by the government seem to be a bad joke.

In other countries, there is no legislation and no binding definition of these zones, so a manufacturer may decide to warn of hazards wherever it seems suitable. Navigon chose to define them by the location and direction of a traffic cam - since the local government claims to build them only in hazardous areas, it's not a bad idea to follow their judgement and warn of hazards just where the danger justifies the use of a traffic cam. The warning distance depends on your speed of advance so you have enough time to reduce your speed to a safe level ;)

Waze chose to do something similar by defining "police surveillance" as the category under which to report mobile speed cams.

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Detlev
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby top_gun_de » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:48 pm

There are better ways, as I described: Do like before, just name it differently, by defining just the surveilled spot as an area ;)

I don't know the way the french government places speed cams, but in Germany, using an extended area in cities would result in a continuous warning.
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby top_gun_de » Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:56 am

As of today, the traffic cams are missing in the client... Time to decide between Waze together with blitzer.de-app or Garmin navigator (all-in-one, and even free for customers of Telekom Germany).

Best regards,

Detlev

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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby top_gun_de » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:20 pm

Nobody gains from further crippling of the services...
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby top_gun_de » Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:42 pm

Besides, Waze might really have legal issues if they promise features which they deliberately choose not to deliver. In Germany, this is called "Vorsatz" (on purpose)and can to my best knowledge not be excempted by means of a disclaimer. There are even two sides affected: Waze's users as customers, and the competitors on the navigation market who don't advertise features they don't offer. ("Unlauterer Wettbewerb")

But, I am not a lawyer, so my legal concerns don't count much to Waze ;)

Best regards,

Detlev
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby top_gun_de » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:02 am

Hello Shirli,

Waze has had more than a month to find better-qualified legal counsel for the respective countries and to rethink their decision.

When may we expect any news on this issue?

Best regards,

Detlev
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby top_gun_de » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:00 pm

AlanOfTheBerg wrote:
masju wrote:Shirli:
How many posts do we have to write until you revoke the decision?
It's not okay to let the community do all the work and than delete this function without any discussion :( .

Waze has already stated their position and it's not based on community sentiment on this issue. They feel it is a legal problem and not subject to community outcry. Therefore, if they determine a reversion can be done legally/safely, I'm sure they will and will let us know. Until then, there's no point in them coming back to this thread to re-post what's already been posted.


Alan, as much as I respect your opinion on other topics in the forum, I can not agree to your opinion on this topic. Waze does not disclose any backgroundinformation about their decision, and German lawyers agree that a manufacturer can provide the service without breaking national law. Consequentially, Garmin and TomTom, the world market leaders, sell this service without any legal issues in Germany.

Shirli has asked for information about the law in Germany, and Jonypony (who left Waze, I know) has posted that Waze is still considering their further actions. Up to now, Waze has had more than a month to find a lawyer who knows the German law better than their current advisor, and I can quite well understand that the community is asking for answers.

While the tone of some comments might be lacking, it is the tone, not the intention behind these comments that is lacking.

I know that "It's the law" is a common reason for lots of things in the US, but in this case, the community has every reason to believe that Waze reads the law incorrectly, and that remediation of this error has already taken long enough.

Forgive me for my long rant, but we have already lost valuable community contributors from the resulting frustration. I am looking forward to meeting you in Israel, and will gladly discuss this over a beer. The current outview for the German community is quite rotten.

Best regards,

Detlev
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby top_gun_de » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:07 pm

You don't need a workaround when you are not breaking the law at all. It is quite frustrating to repeat this so often...


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