Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby davipt » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:27 am

I've always been curious how could waze have kept the cameras in Germany when everybody there knows it's illegal to even have software to inform about cameras installed. I almost had my scary moment when I had trapster installed and the police was quite curious about my old nokia device on the dashboard, but was lucky they were just hunting people drunk from the bars and didn't bother me.

As far as I can remember, for completeness, radar detection hardware is strictly forbidden, and software that announces cameras, fixed or mobile, are also forbidden in some countries - germany being the case - and over there, according to my rough german law translation and the comments from my friends, even having the software installed but not being open could be used against us. I may be wrong on this, I've been back to Portugal for two years now.

I'm mentioning this because there may be the case that removing the cameras from the map is not enough. There may be a need to even remove the camera report and maybe even the police report from the client, but I'm sure some native German can explain this better...
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Re: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby argus-cronos » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:08 am

:evil:
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Re: AW: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby Mynios » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:08 pm

viewtopic.php?p=503282#p503282

After that GMaps will add speed cams... :lol:

Irgendwas mit Tapatalk
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Re: AW: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby Mynios » Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:52 pm

Passierschein A38

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Re: AW: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby davipt » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:52 pm

top_gun_de wrote:Davipt, keep in mind that the law binds only the user of such a device, not the maker or software-producer, neither the distributor. It is perfectly legal to make and sell this kind of software, it is only illegal to use it as the driver of a vehicle. Since the usage is only an administrative offense, there is no law to punish a builder or vendor for conspiracy.


Fully understood, and makes sense with the jokes my friends were doing because this way German companies can still make money out of these apps, only the people driving in Germany can't use them.

I'm just picking this subject because I assume Waze must be feeling the same as I did when I was living there - laws are complicated, german language doubles it, and german law quadruples it. The last thing I wanted was to be stopped by a Deutsch Polizei even if I had everything perfectly legal (*), but the day the guy starting asking me about my Wayfinder navigation running on a Nokia Symbian I got scared enough to ask my friends (which are also not layers) and got recommended to not even have trapster installed.

(*) well, kind of, being stopped at 2am on a small village (Ratingen, Vodafone's Datacenter) with a recent broken head light, by a "hairless" 2meter plus german guy with a stick in his hand and a strong "keine English. Papier schnell" is not a nice moment. Not that I'm complaining because whenever I needed their help they were amazing and efficient. Can't say the same about Portugal.
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Re: AW: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby top_gun_de » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:34 pm

davipt wrote:
wasserkatze11 wrote:As you can read here (in German) http://www.navi-magazin.de/grundlagen-w ... r-im-navi/
Gadgets who's only function it's to warn the user(s) are illegal. When the function is beside the functionality as a navigation-system (optional) then there was never an illegal action.


Thank you! I think this was the missing piece that made my German friends warn me to not even have Trapster installed in Germany, because Trapster is exclusively for radar detection.

On the other hand my rough German can't parse the whole text to reach a conclusion if a navigation software with a radar database is still legal or not. All I can read is that either the police ignores it (if you're stopped, I'm sure it's because you're at 200 at a 100 zone), or they will be nice and instead of destroying the iPhone, will just ask to remove the app.

So if the german layers can't give a concrete answer, how can Waze risk it?


Davipt, keep in mind that the law binds only the user of such a device, not the maker or software-producer, neither the distributor. It is perfectly legal to make and sell this kind of software, it is only illegal to use it as the driver of a vehicle. Since the usage is only an administrative offence, there is no law to punish a builder or vendor for conspiracy.

You as a driver must take care of your actions. Waze does not drive a car in Germany, so they do nothing illegal.

My favourite commercial gps application is Garmin Navigator, formerly from Navigon. They include their database even for free in the base application, and even enlighten the user by announcing "hazard areas" - although with exact locations and directions of radar equipment.

If Waze as the only navigation supplier refrain from making this service available to their users, they will deny their users a service which is quite relevant to lots of users. From my observations, waze will lose more users through this denial than they may ever hope to aquire through FB- or Google+-integration. I keep repeating my suggestion to Waze: You can really afford a good German lawyer to get qualified legal counsel on this matter.

Best regards,

Detlev
Last edited by top_gun_de on Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AW: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby davipt » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:30 pm

wasserkatze11 wrote:As you can read here (in German) http://www.navi-magazin.de/grundlagen-w ... r-im-navi/
Gadgets who's only function it's to warn the user(s) are illegal. When the function is beside the functionality as a navigation-system (optional) then there was never an illegal action.


Thank you! I think this was the missing piece that made my German friends warn me to not even have Trapster installed in Germany, because Trapster is exclusively for radar detection.

On the other hand my rough German can't parse the whole text to reach a conclusion if a navigation software with a radar database is still legal or not. All I can read is that either the police ignores it (if you're stopped, I'm sure it's because you're at 200 at a 100 zone), or they will be nice and instead of destroying the iPhone, will just ask to remove the app.

So if the german layers can't give a concrete answer, how can Waze risk it?
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Re: AW: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby wasserkatze11 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:52 pm

McFloyd wrote:Vielleicht müssten wir halt eine Initiative lancieren, die erlaubt, sich vor Radarfallen warnen zu lassen...

Ich bin weder Schweizer, noch Politik-experte, aber gibt es nicht gerade in der Schweiz die Möglichkeit durch einen Volksentscheid das geltend zu machen, so dass es von der Regierung akzeptiert werden muss?
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Re: AW: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby wasserkatze11 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:01 pm

As you can read here (in German) http://www.navi-magazin.de/grundlagen-w ... r-im-navi/
Gadgets who's only function it's to warn the user(s) are illegal. When the function is beside the functionality as a navigation-system (optional) then there was never an illegal action.
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Re: AW: Removal of speed cameras following legal issues

Postby Snake68 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:59 pm

wasserkatze11 wrote:I thought it is just illegal, when u use it while driving... before it is legal^^
P.S.: even "professional" apps include this functionality, but it can be disabled...



It's only illigal for the driver while driving! Not before or after.
And it's legal for all passangers in the car while driving :!:
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