City and County Naming - New Zealand

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Re: City and County Naming - New Zealand

Postby nzhook » Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:18 pm

pcp192 wrote:Does this explain why Ngatea appears in exactly the right place and Patea didn't (before nzhook forced the placement by removing the city name from surrounding roads)?

Would have been by coincidence as I had entered the roads for Patea a long time before I clicked No City on the others, and up until I clicked No City all searches returned Patea in the wrong place. (map layer had not updated for a long time so thats a hard one to guess)
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Re: City and County Naming - New Zealand

Postby nzhook » Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:14 pm

ispyisail wrote:I currently disagree on this but im still in trial stage.

Because of the openness of waze im going to suggest we list both methods and let editors choose. Over time one will become more popular than the other?


Im also still not 100%, but I think if we define what the no city field would do, people can determine their best option. The only option would then be when we then decide that the common method used.

So if we focus down on the Rural bit (as Urban is fine)
Rural Areas
There are two methods used currently to determine road in rural areas of New Zealand, both options are acceptable however an area using one method should not be interchanged with another method unless the whole area is changed.

Method 1, Automatically places an urban indicator around cities/areas and shows less areas on the map
This method uses the 'No City' tick box when the area is no longer built up (eg. commonly when driving at open road speeds). Add at least one alternate street with the closest City/town name entered to aid in searching and navigation. If a road joins two city/towns split the road at an appropriate so both halves can be in each town.

Method 2, The area name appears over all roads, and shows every area on the map.
This method uses the city field populated with the name of the town, village or area in which the road lies. This applies to Freeways, Ramps, Major and Minor Highways, Primary Streets and Streets.
The appropriate name for any given road can be determined using other sources such as an AA Map, government GIS data or council websites.

Where a road extends across boundaries, change the City name at a nearby intersection if appropriate or split the road if necessary in order to change the name in the correct place. As an example of this, Ararimu Road begins in Ramarama, passes through Ararimu and ends in Paparimu. The City field is used to reflect the correct name for any given segment of the road.

Where the boundary of two areas follows the centre of a road, use one area in the City field and add the other area in an alternate City field, for searching and navigational purposes.


I originally had No City (Method 1) last, but it got lost in the description for having a city.
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Re: City and County Naming - New Zealand

Postby ispyisail » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:23 pm

I suspect that that wiki page is out of date based on a few things

Having said that it doesn't mean its wrong
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Re: City and County Naming - New Zealand

Postby pcp192 » Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:15 pm

I've been doing some more reading on how the city names are placed and going back to the Waze Wiki: http://www.waze.com/wiki/index.php/Timeline_of_updating_process#City_Names_and_Boundaries
It ways that
This becomes fixed as more roads, closer together, are given the city name.


Does this explain why Ngatea appears in exactly the right place and Patea didn't (before nzhook forced the placement by removing the city name from surrounding roads)?

Ngatea has a higher concentration of roads in the town centre so my question is - does that influence the placement of the city name on the map?

This is Ngatea: https://world.waze.com/editor/?zoom=3&lat=-37.27511&lon=175.49442&layers=BFTFFTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTFT

Is Matamata the same? The name appears in the centre of the town but I doubt this is the centre point of all roads using Matamata in the city name.
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Re: City and County Naming - New Zealand

Postby ispyisail » Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:56 am

Rural Areas
Roads in rural areas of New Zealand should have the city field populated with the name of the town, village or area in which the road lies. This applies to Freeways, Ramps, Major and Minor Highways, Primary Streets and Streets.
The appropriate name for any given road can be determined using other sources such as AA Maps (maps.aa.co.nz), Google maps (maps.google.com), or Council documentation if available.

Where a road extends across boundaries, change the City name at a nearby intersection if appropriate or split the road if necessary in order to change the name in the correct place. As an example of this, Ararimu Road begins in Ramarama, passes through Ararimu and ends in Paparimu. The City field is used to reflect the correct name for any given segment of the road.

Where the boundary of two areas follows the centre of a road, use one area in the City field and add the other area in an alternate City field, for searching and navigational purposes.


I currently disagree on this but im still in trial stage.

Because of the openness of waze im going to suggest we list both methods and let editors choose. Over time one will become more popular than the other?
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Re: City and County Naming - New Zealand

Postby ispyisail » Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:49 am

Another example where an error occurs is Springfield in Northland which is also a city name in a few American States in this case the City Name is Springfield, Northland.


Im not sure I agree with this?

Its Springfield, New Zealand

New Zealand is already defined?

There should only be one Springfield city in NZ. e.g. "Palmerston" and "Palmerston North"

We know there are double ups on suburbs but they are part of cities.
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Re: City and County Naming - New Zealand

Postby pcp192 » Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:34 am

Following advice from one of our moderators, we need to change the statement
The appropriate name for any given road can be determined using other sources such as AA Maps (maps.aa.co.nz), Google maps (maps.google.com), or Council documentation if available.


It should read:

The appropriate name for any given road should be determined using government GIS data which is available from many local government websites around the country.

I'm researching sources now and will provide details when I have some information.
Is anyone else aware of on-line GIS/road data sources in NZ? I suggest we start a new topic for this so that we don't make this one any longer than it already is :-)
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Re: City and County Naming - New Zealand

Postby pcp192 » Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:44 am

Here's a new draft of the whole section for comment:

City Naming

The City field should be used to specify the city, suburb or town for all streets within it.

Where possible, the simplest unique name should be used. In the case where two or more towns/suburbs share the same name, the Greater Area name can be added in afterwards. For example, "Redhill, Whangarei" would distinguish it from the suburb in Auckland. It is preferable to have no suffix on whichever town is the larger or more well known. Another example where an error occurs is Springfield in Northland which is also a city name in a few American States in this case the City Name is Springfield, Northland.

Urban Areas
To aid in presenting a clear and uncluttered client display, the City field should be used as follows for each road type:
    - Freeway, Major and Minor Highway
      o The City Field should contain the name of the greater city e.g. Auckland, Wellington, Hamilton
      o Add Alternate Street Names to aid in searching. E.g. add an alternate name using the Suburb in the City field
    - Primary Street, Street, Ramp (and all other road types not listed)
      o The City field should contain the name of the Suburb. If a street crosses suburb boundaries, change the name at the nearest intersection and if necessary create a node to split the road at the appropriate point. o Add an Alternate Street Name using the name of the city in the City field– e.g. Auckland, Wellington, Hamilton
      o Additional Alternate names can be added if other suburb/area names need to be allowed for in searching.
    - Roundabouts
      o Follow standard rules for roundabouts with ‘None’ ticked for both the City and Street fields
    - Parking Lots
      o These should have ‘None’ ticked for both the City and Street fields

Rural Areas
Roads in rural areas of New Zealand should have the city field populated with the name of the town, village or area in which the road lies. This applies to Freeways, Ramps, Major and Minor Highways, Primary Streets and Streets.
The appropriate name for any given road can be determined using other sources such as AA Maps (maps.aa.co.nz), Google maps (maps.google.com), or Council documentation if available.

Where a road extends across boundaries, change the City name at a nearby intersection if appropriate or split the road if necessary in order to change the name in the correct place. As an example of this, Ararimu Road begins in Ramarama, passes through Ararimu and ends in Paparimu. The City field is used to reflect the correct name for any given segment of the road.

Where the boundary of two areas follows the centre of a road, use one area in the City field and add the other area in an alternate City field, for searching and navigational purposes.
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Re: City and County Naming - New Zealand

Postby nzhook » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:40 am

(Ive broken this into two posts as the Patea one was quite long by itself)
Antmannz wrote:For me, the Live Map is a guide only; it's what is shown in the client that matters most, and in the client the City Name moves about to accommodate your position, and whatever road names and other gui elements are being displayed.

It only does that in some conditions, for instance zoom out in the client, navigate to a town/city (you would end up in the middle of nowhere), or change the setting to be based on distance rather than speed (where zoom applies).

Antmannz wrote:IMO, setting the City Name according to road speed is pure nonsense; it requires a greater knowledge of the locality being edited and is likely to require more frequent updating. Additionally, as detailed in earlier posts, areas may just disappear off the map.

Waze has 1 mile limitation for a reason, people cannot edit an area without driving it. The only people who get away with this excuse would be AMs and CM's and then other questions should be asked.

How are we going to fix the other missing area names? Should we actually be entering a city of: 'Waiongana, Inglewood, Taranaki, North Island', or maybe 'Gumtown, Kamo, Whangarei, North Island'? Which of these 'areas' are not important?

Antmannz wrote:It's unlikely that new editors (which are likely 'transient' anyway) will read the forum or wiki here, they'll just start editing so any sort of decision re rural city naming I think needs to be simple enough that it would closely match what a newbie would do.


Agreed, Most people I know dont just jump in and change everything without looking at what is there first? But how does a newbie know that City means 'Area'? Or that the tick box that says 'No City' shouldnt be used?

The question comes down to what ever option we decide on needs to be written down in the wiki page so people who actually do read it (or we can at least point people at it) can find the correct information to go in the field.

If you can write the wording for any of the options then please post it here, remembering that we are trying for a simple approach so it needs to cover how to find the information.

I have two versions for the No City:
1. For a rural area (normally where the speed limit is 100k/ph) tick 'No City'
OR 2. For sections which are not built up with housing tick 'No City'

Heres a couple of attempts for always having a city (im sure one of the people who are pro this option can word this better than me):
1. Where city/town is not applicable determine the boundary of an area by using Google maps or council documentation, if the road falls within two areas, break the road at the boundary. Enter the area name into the city field.
OR 2. Determine the area which the segment falls in, the road should be split if it falls within two areas. Areas can normally be determined by using local council documentation or using Google maps.

Ive also left out that the use of Google maps violates there term and conditions, and that Alt names should be used as for a newbie they wouldnt know that anyway.
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Re: City and County Naming - New Zealand

Postby nzhook » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:05 am

Antmannz wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought this err.... discussion began because Patea was not centred on the actual urban area on the Live Map on the website.


Where has this obsession with Patea came from?

This topic was about what the wiki should say so if people found it they would know what to do, No City has been discussed in previous topics like this one:
viewtopic.php?f=122&t=30542
Another thing ive noticed is a lot of the country roads (including state highways) are marked as a city, this actually doesnt work very well in the client or the maps as the overlays make it look like a badly formatted triangle and city names hover over the wrong area, I think where its out in the 100k zone, we should tick the No City option.


You could possibly get Patea from here:
viewtopic.php?f=122&t=31851
I disagree with this, its fine in places like Auckland where everything is very connected, but once you start going out into the rest of New Zealand the client starts doing weird stuff, for example the middle of the town/city is the middle of all the roads that have that name. And recently ive found largish (50k) towns that are in the middle of nowhere because the city name had the name on the small road.

On top of that as ive mentioned in the other thread when people are setting the city, its based on 'ive just done this one', and everything in between doesnt exist until someone fixes it. For example Taranaki had a lot of places like this, Inglewood, Eltham, Midhurst, Patea, even Hawera were all listed as the incorrect towns because someone had done a town/city before it, entered the name and then when someone else came along they didnt update the field. At least if its set as No City it wont cause what the forum calls a City Smudge.


However the first real mention of Patea being in the wrong place was in this topic when we started talking about No City again. Like many of the problems, ive already mentioned Patea was just another problem that has been caused by not using the No City field.
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