City and County Naming - New Zealand

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Re: City and County Naming - New Zealand

Postby pcp192 » Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:15 pm

I've been doing some more reading on how the city names are placed and going back to the Waze Wiki: http://www.waze.com/wiki/index.php/Timeline_of_updating_process#City_Names_and_Boundaries
It ways that
This becomes fixed as more roads, closer together, are given the city name.


Does this explain why Ngatea appears in exactly the right place and Patea didn't (before nzhook forced the placement by removing the city name from surrounding roads)?

Ngatea has a higher concentration of roads in the town centre so my question is - does that influence the placement of the city name on the map?

This is Ngatea: https://world.waze.com/editor/?zoom=3&lat=-37.27511&lon=175.49442&layers=BFTFFTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTFT

Is Matamata the same? The name appears in the centre of the town but I doubt this is the centre point of all roads using Matamata in the city name.
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Re: City and County Naming - New Zealand

Postby pcp192 » Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:34 am

Following advice from one of our moderators, we need to change the statement
The appropriate name for any given road can be determined using other sources such as AA Maps (maps.aa.co.nz), Google maps (maps.google.com), or Council documentation if available.


It should read:

The appropriate name for any given road should be determined using government GIS data which is available from many local government websites around the country.

I'm researching sources now and will provide details when I have some information.
Is anyone else aware of on-line GIS/road data sources in NZ? I suggest we start a new topic for this so that we don't make this one any longer than it already is :-)
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Re: City and County Naming - New Zealand

Postby pcp192 » Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:44 am

Here's a new draft of the whole section for comment:

City Naming

The City field should be used to specify the city, suburb or town for all streets within it.

Where possible, the simplest unique name should be used. In the case where two or more towns/suburbs share the same name, the Greater Area name can be added in afterwards. For example, "Redhill, Whangarei" would distinguish it from the suburb in Auckland. It is preferable to have no suffix on whichever town is the larger or more well known. Another example where an error occurs is Springfield in Northland which is also a city name in a few American States in this case the City Name is Springfield, Northland.

Urban Areas
To aid in presenting a clear and uncluttered client display, the City field should be used as follows for each road type:
    - Freeway, Major and Minor Highway
      o The City Field should contain the name of the greater city e.g. Auckland, Wellington, Hamilton
      o Add Alternate Street Names to aid in searching. E.g. add an alternate name using the Suburb in the City field
    - Primary Street, Street, Ramp (and all other road types not listed)
      o The City field should contain the name of the Suburb. If a street crosses suburb boundaries, change the name at the nearest intersection and if necessary create a node to split the road at the appropriate point. o Add an Alternate Street Name using the name of the city in the City field– e.g. Auckland, Wellington, Hamilton
      o Additional Alternate names can be added if other suburb/area names need to be allowed for in searching.
    - Roundabouts
      o Follow standard rules for roundabouts with ‘None’ ticked for both the City and Street fields
    - Parking Lots
      o These should have ‘None’ ticked for both the City and Street fields

Rural Areas
Roads in rural areas of New Zealand should have the city field populated with the name of the town, village or area in which the road lies. This applies to Freeways, Ramps, Major and Minor Highways, Primary Streets and Streets.
The appropriate name for any given road can be determined using other sources such as AA Maps (maps.aa.co.nz), Google maps (maps.google.com), or Council documentation if available.

Where a road extends across boundaries, change the City name at a nearby intersection if appropriate or split the road if necessary in order to change the name in the correct place. As an example of this, Ararimu Road begins in Ramarama, passes through Ararimu and ends in Paparimu. The City field is used to reflect the correct name for any given segment of the road.

Where the boundary of two areas follows the centre of a road, use one area in the City field and add the other area in an alternate City field, for searching and navigational purposes.
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Re: City and County Naming - New Zealand

Postby pcp192 » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:58 am

I couldn't agree more. This discussion/argument is at an impasse.

There are a large number of Waze users in NZ and at this point only 4 people have really been involved in this discussion. That's not enough to make a 'ruling' on how we want roads to be named. We already know that a large number of people editing the map don't read the forums, the Wiki or even personal messages so it's all a moot point anyway.

The principal of keeping it simple is paramount and should be followed at all times. At the end of the day, the proposal from nzhook and ispyisail is anything but simple.

People editing the map in areas they are familiar with will undoubtedly make intelligent decisions on how to name roads and areas in a way that makes sense for them, and the given area of the country.

Lets just keep this simple and stop trying to impose complex rules which few people will follow anyway.
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Re: City and County Naming - New Zealand

Postby pcp192 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:07 am

I really do wish Waze had the ablity to draw that layer, then it wouldnt be a problem. We could have city names everywhere and we wouldn't need to have this discussion.


Either that or the ability to pinpoint a location for city names as the centre of a town/area.

In the meantime what we are trying to do is find a compromise. As an aside - do you think waze was only ever conceived as a tool to route within urban areas and that rural roads weren't even considered in the design? :lol:

Looking at the requirements:
- Urban/Rural boxes
- Easy to follow wiki Instructions
- Place names in the correct place
- Showing town/city/area names against all roads while driving
- Ability to add in areas not currently mapped out

Could you clarify the first and last of the requirements above - not sure what you mean with those ones sorry.

If we agree on the above, then do we agree there are two options for naming in rural areas:
1. Use the city field in all circumstances
2. Use the city field only where a 50km/h speed limit applies, with Alt city used to aid searching.

If agreed on the possible solutions, lets work through each one and assess against the requirements.
I've started a spreadsheet to get the assessment in one place - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... mpyT3lULVE

Feel free to edit, add comments etc
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Re: City and County Naming - New Zealand

Postby pcp192 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:02 am

nzhook wrote:No fixing Patea was a caused by people who named the whole road and dont actually pay attention to how much they are naming. Much like Waitomo.


In that case the solution isn't to remove the name altogether, it's making sure the correct name is used isn't it?

nzhook wrote:The urban thing has always been my main concern (ive refereed to it in many ways, such as City layer)


Our solution earlier on the urban display is probably going to work really well - I'm updating a number of suburbs around Auckland to be able to prove that one way or another. So much of Auckland had all roads labelled 'Auckland' in the city so getting the suburb names correct is going to make a huge difference on the map. Keeping 'Auckland' on the Highway roads should keep the city name visible at higher levels.
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Re: City and County Naming - New Zealand

Postby pcp192 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:32 am

ispyisail wrote:does it matter?

Give me a real world example of how you use waze and how this change would effect it?


I've already done that - drive up SH-27 and you'll see what I mean. You must have similar areas in Northland?

Where's the real world example that shows having no names in rural areas is of benefit? Naming just a small stretch of road in the one spot is not the answer. These areas are mush bigger than that and the name will move along the map as you drive through it. I've seen this happen and it looks good.
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Re: City and County Naming - New Zealand

Postby pcp192 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:23 am

if its a in 50km zone add city name


This doesn't answer the very valid question of what happens when there is no 50km/h zone? There are plenty of these throughout the country.
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Re: City and County Naming - New Zealand

Postby pcp192 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:19 am

ispyisail wrote:
finshona wrote:Oh also Ararimu doesn't have any 50km speed restricted areas.


have a look at google maps

it doesn't list it either

you can search and find it but it doesn't list as place name


Ararimu shows on the map for me - with a clearly defined area as well:
https://maps.google.co.nz/maps?q=Ararimu,+Auckland&hl=en&ll=-37.14164,175.047569&spn=0.046183,0.104628&sll=-36.863023,174.865469&sspn=0.741646,1.674042&oq=ararimu&hnear=Ararimu,+Auckland&t=m&z=14
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Re: City and County Naming - New Zealand

Postby pcp192 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:03 am

ispyisail wrote:I've been editing rural northland roads for our trial.

In going to suggest that the "city field" should only be used in 50km speed zones e.g. urban areas (including motorways)

e.g.

Ruawai

https://world.waze.com/editor/?zoom=1&l ... FFTFTTTTFT


This still makes no sense to me at all. Looking at your example of Ruawai I do not see any benefit in leaving the city field blank for all those roads. You've also broken your own proposed rule with this road which is mostly in a 50 (or in part 70) km/h speed limit area. https://world.waze.com/editor/?zoom=3&lat=-36.1336&lon=174.0313&layers=BFTTFTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTFT&segments=163654589

One of the goals in creating a standard was to aid in searching and this will only make searching more difficult. Take Tramline Rd - right now if I do a search I get two, one in Ruawai and one in Patetonga. Once your latest update in Ruawai is applied that will appear as Tramline Rd with no city. If both Tramline Rds have no city how will anyone know which one to pick?
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