BTW, as an example of a road with the city name against the primary field and the map showing the town in an incorrect location take a look at Patea on the livemap: https://world.waze.com/livemap/?lon=174 ... yers=BTTTT

Patea is next to the river (around where the BP is), not half way up the page.

ispyisail wrote:

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RD 1 Kamo 0185

Result

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Street Name: Gumtown Road
Primary: None
Alt: Kamo

Even though my official suburb is "Gumtown"

With that little bit at the end that the fourm didnt include, I see the issue.

Most people I know who live out in the Rural areas dont actually give the city, but since im in New Plymouth the RD addresses closely reflect the closest town not the suburb (eg. RD 1, New Plymouth)

The idea of the alt name is for navigation, so if I was driving from New Plymouth to you what address would you give me so that I dont go to Turua, Hauraki? And what would we call the city part so that people know what it is and could find it easily? as obviously city from the postal address doesnt work as I thought it would.

ispyisail wrote:

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111 Gumtown Road, Gumtown, Whangarei

I would think Whangarei would be the city part for the alt, or do people need to search on the Gumtown as well?

ispyisail wrote:I also have another problem

https://world.waze.com/editor/?zoom=2&l ... FFTFTTTTFT

The suburb "woodhill"

I think there is a suburb in auckland also called woodhill, so I had to name it "woodhill (whangarei)"

I'm temped to try and name all streets and roads primary "Whangarei" and all alts their suburb names?

thoughts?

I thought the idea of having the primary as the suburb was so the client showed the suburb. If you name them all Whangarei then they all just show as Whangarei. And you wouldnt be able to label it Woodhill as an Alt as it would still conflict with the other Woodhill.

The woodhill is a tricky one, I think the UK ( http://world.waze.com/wiki/index.php/Ho ... Kingdom%29 ) manual does that trick.

Where possible, the simplest unique name should be used. In the case where two towns share the same name, the County can be added in brackets afterwards. For example, "Preston (Dorset)" would distinguish it from the city in Lancashire. It is preferable to have no suffix on whichever town is the larger or more well known.

I cant find anything about what the US does, although looking at there map they do the same thing as we are doing (City on primary and above, suburb on standard) (eg. St Louis: http://www.waze.com/livemap/?zoom=10&la ... yers=BTTTT )

ispyisail wrote: in google maps i can search with only

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274 Gumtown Road, Whangarei

but if you were using old fashion maps it wouldn't be so much fun

Well we have established that Google doesnt acknowledge Gumtown, you can search for Gumtown Road, Kamo tho. We could have an alt entries for all three: Gumtown, Kamo, and Whangarei but it would get really niggly to maintain. I also dont think the client works with part of name (eg. Gumtown/Kamo, Whangarei).

Live map is a beast, each zoom level is done at different times, searching should always work but display could be way off, which is why I used it in the example for Patea (ive already fixed Patea so searching would take you to the correct place).

The city layer in the client seems odd too, some updates have been applied yet in some places the updates havnt. eg. I changed New Plymouth to have suburbs as we discussed but they are not showing up, I also removed some city smudges months ago and they have not shown up. However adding Inglewood into the map (and ticking No city around it) has shown up.

I just took a look at my clients view of Whangarei and it depends on how I moved over top as to if it shows or not, at one point Gumtown was the only city in the area, so it maybe the same thing it hasnt finished updating yet (or it may have caught up).

I had picked St Louis as it always shows at the higher zoom levels which is what we wanted, with the main city at high levels (so the map is not cluttered with suburb names) and as you get down it starts breaking into suburbs. However I must have picked the only suburb where thats how they had done it, as the random segments I looked today at were not done that way. So ignore that thought.


I dont think we can really determine the city layer until its fully updated, things I do know with what has been updated:
- The client looks a lot better when the urban areas are correctly aligned. Thats done by the No City flag. eg. see image for when it has not been ticked vs when it is
- Searching will look at alt names as well as the primary

So we can ethir wait and see what happens with the city layer, or simplify it a little more to cover the known and leave Whangarei as it is and when we know if it has worked we can fix this:
- The Primary city field is used an indicator for an urban area, and includes suburb in all urban cases. In rural cases the No City is ticked
- Alts are used, and contain the extra detail needed for searching. You can goto any detail level you want here, but the minimum would be the city/town (if not given by the primary). This applies to urban and rural.

Based on the number of towns ive driven thru im assuming that the CBD does not have a suburb name, so the city name would be used. Are there any places where this doesnt fit?


Also a small extension to this would be where a city/town/suburb name conflicts, in which case the UK method should be used?


No City example Images...

pcp192 wrote:Does it really matter what the live map looks like? It's the client that is most important and if someone is looking for Whangarei won't they just search for it anyway which will take them very close to the centre of the city?
I don't think we need to be concerned with the aesthetics of the live map or the view from a high zoom level in any platform.

Who's the 'we'? I dont use Waze to navigate that often, so to me aesthetics is quite important, if I want to look at another city I zoom out move to it and then zoom back in (especially if I cant spell it, after all I have to keep copy and pasting Whangarei).

pcp192 wrote:If all you want is a pretty map use Google or some other platform. Don't try to make Waze something it's not intended to be. The homepage says 'Waze is the world's fastest-growing community-based traffic and navigation app'. The basic principals of Waze are to keep the map as simple as possible to make sure routing works with accurate driving instructions.

If you really want to edit a map for the aesthetics rather than functionality go to google.com/mapmaker. You'll also find it's more tolerant of spelling mistakes.

Are we really going own this path again, The purpose of Waze is for reporting traffic issues and adaptive routing. Google maps doesnt support that, in fact from the suggestions of what you want Waze to do its a lot closer to the Google maps feature set than Waze, maybe your using the wrong app.

You have also suggested in the past that a feature exists and we should use it, but now you have turned around and said we shouldnt use something because you think it makes things look pretty.

Lets go for the 'the feature is there, so use it' approach rather than ignoring it because it doesnt suit, thats where ive been coming from and why Alt names are being used to cover the things you have wanted.

finshona wrote:If keeping it simple (area/suburb name in city field) works in most places with the name displaying correctly on the map why don't we carry on with that and where the cludge is needed apply it where and when necessary. There could be a list of areas where the simple rules don't apply on the wiki and clear instructions on how to apply the cludge and why. That way new wazers won't upset the map through enthusiasm and ignorance.

Area managers for a cludged area could then diplomatically advise any new wazers who stumble through to check the relevant wiki pages.

Agreed, although we really need to work out what we are trying to achieve, as theres multiple different things that we are trying to address.
- Display of Urban areas
- Searching Urban areas
- Display of Rural areas
- Searching Rural areas

And yes we would need to cover the kludges, as WME gives an error and a new user wont ask how to fix it they will just change everything else to try and fix it themselves, and then someone would have to set it all back.

If you want to go down the easiest option for new people to understand, the first question that they would likely ask would be: What should be in the City field and why is there a No City tick box?

So is what I mentioned in my earlier post simple enough for new people to understand, or do we need to break it down further and work out the missing bits:
(the instructions would need to be reworded, just here as a brief version for now, we can discuss the wording once we all agree)

nzhook wrote: - The Primary city field is used an indicator for an urban area, and includes suburb in all urban cases. In rural cases the No City is ticked
- Alts are used, and contain the extra detail needed for searching. You can goto any detail level you want here, but the minimum would be the city/town (if not given by the primary). This applies to urban and rural.

..

nzhook wrote: Also a small extension to this would be where a city/town/suburb name conflicts, in which case the UK method should be used?

This little bit then sets the guideline for when someone get the error about being too far away.

Other than that there should really be no need for other kludges should there?

ispyisail wrote:

Are you wanting the suburb names to disappear when only primary streets and above are visible?

yes

that is the whole point

I do like the idea of only having something like Whangarei show up at the higher zoom levels, and then as you zoom down it starts showing suburbs. But until we know its working like this, I think we need to keep it simple and can change it later. (which is why I suggested we leave Whangarei as is, we could also leave New Plymouth like it and see if ether updates as expected - since they seem to be on different update schedules)

On a side note, once we have a method, im thinking of writing a userscript to do most of the work, eg. have a field for City and a field for Suburb, and the script can put the alt entry in, and if we change the process later the script could then update the segment (that part Id have to think about how when we get there tho). But we really do need to have some rules on what we are doing.

ispyisail wrote: -fixes zoom problem (until recently when you zoomed out bulls was more bigger than Wellington)

Was this because someone changed the City name or clicked No City? Thats why I like using the No City option, the cities look more accurate in size that what Waze determines based on the City field.