Another topic: Indian Reservations in the US...

I've not been a part of this discussion and have searched the 18 pages on TTS without finding anything. This is also probably a topic for textual road abbreviations on the client.

There are a lot of American Indian reservations in the US Southwest. I am starting to address some of the roads there now in New Mexico. I see that these are not well represented in the material on Waze likely because they have fewer drivers. Some areas are high traffic from tourism or casino traffic. These regions actually have a large amount of autonomy from the US Government and therefore different road naming conventions than states or interstates.

One convention is "Indian Service Route XXX." Many times these are named inconsistently in the current map with the usual abbreviation "Indian Svc Rte XXX" being used, but sometimes other variations being used for highway-like roads. Other lesser streets have names like "Indian Rd XXX." Other states may use other naming conventions.

It would seem that the primary textual values on the map are displayed on an often-cramped client display, a much shorter version could be used. This would impact the TTS as well. Obviously the smallest abbreviation might be "ISR-XXX." That's one I prefer because it seems brevity is the primary driver due to a small client display.

It would be nice if we considered the US Indian reservations in both the textual abbreviations and the TTS.

As a relative outsider (6 months new) and pragmatist, I am often struck by how the Waze software team seems distant from the dedicated AM/editor group both dynamically and by setting standards. Maybe that is part of what makes a world-wide social app work. Efforts here are commendable. Client/Server software seems like the place to solve a lot of these issues with ability to parse a wide range of naming conventions and abbreviations. If Waze is truly successful in having a community-based editing crowd, many less-dedicated and formalized editors will name things however they want and that crowd will overwhelm dedicated editors.

I'm sorry for posting this so late, but have been occupied with other things. I looked at the first post with the link to the document and didn't see a couple of things. I might have missed some.

Obvious:
== Cll (or CLL) is used all over NM for Calle (Street in Spanish). While Calle was in the first post spreadsheet, someone seemed to suggest "C" represent it. That seems too simple and might lead to confusion.

Indian Reservations:

I posted some of this on other threads I believe---that western US states especially have a lot of Indian reservations.

== Indian Service Route --or-- Indian Service Rte --or-- Indian Svc Rte

It would be nice to have ISR be placed in the TTS. This is relatively common. If there is some other standard, I don't care what it is. I am just worried that Indian reservations are under represented.

== Navajo Service Route --or-- other variant per above

This is less common, but I would imagine that each Indian tribe reservation may have their tribe name on some of these roads. While one could suggest NSR, I would wonder how many other tribes have special names. In New Mexico, it seems most tribes use the Indian Service Rte (or Route) on the map, but we have a large population of Navajos, so they may get special treatment.

== Indian Road

I have no idea if it is worth putting this in the mix, but have seen it a bit as well.

GizmoGuy411 wrote: ...Since as you point out "Cll" and CLL" is commonly used for "Calle", I'll be sure to add those to the test list.

I was not entirely clear on your other suggestions however. Can you clarify which abbreviations are currently in use? I'll add them to the test list. I will also add any suggestions that you may not have actually seen on signs, but feel are likely being used. If you could check other mapping services, including state government sites, it may be helpful. I had no luck with a Google search nor in Wikipedia.

Gizmo...

Here are the major items I did not find in the spreadsheet listed in the first message on this board. They're all primarily street names with Spanish influence. Primarily names for "street" -- Calle [e.g., Calle Nortena] and "road" -- Camino [e.g., Camnio Real]

(1) Calle is abbreviated "Cll" in many places. I just wrote "CLL to be clear, but I have never seen it all upper case.

(2) Camino is abbreviated "Cam" in many places. Sometimes it is spelled out.

(3) Valle is abbreviated "Vll" in some places. It is Spanish for Valley, so at least "Valle" should be added to the table in some way to translate the Spanish version of Valley into the other forms. It is pronounced "va-yay" [e.g., Valle Grande].

A town to see many of these is Los Lunas, NM, for instance.

(4) Indian Service Route / Indian Service Road are just way too long on the client map. Sometimes abbreviated with Rte and Svc. I believe these are seen in many reservations. I have never seen an abbreviation but would like to see "ISR-xxx" become a standard abbreviation for these locations, if it makes greater sense for the application and map.

(5) Note that many Spanish roads have "la" in them for "the," so the abbreviation system should not automatically interpret "la" into some other set of words within a street name.

I'll check the state mapping service and GIS site and post more later as I find it.

GizmoGuy411 wrote: ... If you could check other mapping services, including state government sites, it may be helpful. I had no luck with a Google search nor in Wikipedia.

Gizmo...

I did a bit of research, not necessarily complete. It seems that many such roads are funded or controlled by the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA, bia.gov), and that they assign route numbers to roads.

http://www.bia.gov/cs/groups/public/doc ... 001946.pdf says:

"All routes are identified with a BIA route number. This is a numeric code of exactly four digits left-padded with zeros when necessary. In RIFDS, routes are created (and deleted) on the new route form. BIA route numbers are used on sign posts, atlas maps, plans, programs, reports, and other bureau records requiring similar identification. A spur to an existing route is always assigned its own route number."

While this is referring to a database, it also refers to roads that are built.

If you look at this reference, you'll see there are a lot of Indian Reservation areas that might be influential here. Most of the land area is obviously in the western USA:
http://nationalatlas.gov/printable/imag ... lands3.pdf

Looking around the country on reservations, I found a number of "Indian Svc Rte" names, "BIA Rd xxx," which seems already a good standard. I would like to see Indian Service Route be either ISR-xxx or "Indian Svc Rte xxx" to save space on displays.

I'll look around the country a bit more later.

More on the Indian Reservations / Indian Nations...

Another road system in NM and AZ is the "Navajo Service Route XXX" roads. There are not a massive number of them, but they cover a lot of area. They are listed on http://www.navajotransit.com/, which is primarily some kind of bus system for those routes on the Navajo Nation.

I would suggest a short abbreviation as NSR-XXX. Others could take into account existing abbreviations as "Navajo Svc Rte XXX." I have not heard the TTS system pronounce "Navajo" to see if it comes out correctly either.

Regarding the BIA-XXX roads, which are more widespread, I would not suggest TTS expanding BIA to "Bureau of Indian Affairs," as that's rather long and one might have already passed a turn by the time it is spoken! Why can't the TTS system focus on cap letters and just say B. I. A.? I have not read this whole thread in detail, so I assume that has already been discussed for other acronyms.

From a number of visits with government agencies responsible for roads (see other threads) I have a few requests for addition to the TTS system.

(1) BIA-xxxxxx

Pronounced "B.I.A" then the following characters which will usually be a number, but could be a letter followed by a number in the future. This comes from a visit with Dept of Interior, Bureau of Indian Affairs, Supervisory Road Engineer.

(2) TR-xxx

Pronounced "Tribal Route" followed by the characters (up to six, but could just be one). This would be a generic tribal route designation for any tribal land that would accommodate it. This is not intended to be mandatory for use on all tribal lands, but rather a common form similar to "SR-xxx" for state routes.

(3) FSR-xxx

Pronounced "Forest Service Route" followed by a set of characters that would name the road, typically numbers and letters. This comes from talking to a US Forest Service GIS specialist that will be providing us forest road data, first for a few forests, and if that works we can have the forest data for the whole US.

mapcat wrote:The spreadsheet lists TR-xxx as a proposed abbreviation for Township Road.

Thanks. I looked at the spreadsheet to check but missed that. If so, I'll seek an alternative abbreviation with BIA.

I'd like to add another item to the spreadsheet, if it make sense. I've had two ongoing projects, one to work Indian Reservations and the other to work Forest Service Roads. I've interacted quite a bit with GIS people at Bureau of Indian Affairs and the US Forest Service and am continuing to do so.

Indian Service Road/Route (ISR-xxx) seems to be in the TTS spreadsheet already from a prior effort, without the xxx part at least. I am working on other abbreviations that would be more universal or as well.

I would now like to add FS-xxxxx to the TTS now as it is something that has cross-country applicability. The base map and subsequent edits have a variety of standards such as "Forest Service Road xxx," "Forest Rd xxx," "F S xxx," and others that include Route. We could standardize on this FS-xxxx as a way to simplify and make more sound the travel of Wazers on these roads.

I have quite a bit of information from the US Forest Service, particularly functional classifications, name standards and conventions for forest service roads, access to actual GIS data for anywhere in the nation, and a policy of where USFS wants people to use their roads and where not. I will start simplifying and posting this information elsewhere soon, but it would be good to get FS-xxx into the TTS list now.

I would suggest not using FSR-xxx for Forest Service Road/Route because it is longer and somewhat redundant. Just "Forest Service XXXX" would suffice as is done for "State Route xxxx," etc.

dbraughlr wrote:

qwaletee wrote:"Forest Service 123" is alien-sounding. That's it. You think it isn't?

If Waze said "Turn right onto Runway 16L", would that sound alien?
Don't make the turn.

I'm not preaching. I am serious. If "Forest Service" sounds "alien" to you, you do not know what you are getting into and should not make the turn. Either the FS road is your intended destination and you know what you are getting into, or else you need to go some other way. The word "road" would provide false security. They are not "roads" in the sense that people such as yourself think of roads. If you make them sound "friendly", you could be sued for misrepresentation.

I really like the discussion, it's very entertaining. I guess I am not hard-up on either FS-XXX or FSR-XXX. When I talked to the USFS GIS staff, they suggested FSR-XXX at the time. When I looked in the TTS spreadsheet, I saw that FS and FSR were open.

I thought that FS-XXX was shorter and closer to something like SR-XXX for State Route (by the way, I prefer SR-XXX to State Hwy XXX). I agree that FS-XXX does not sound like fully proper English, something is missing. I thought it wouldn't matter because, as mentioned earlier in this thread by others, we abbreviate and say things like turn right on 123. "Road" is redundant but it is somewhat pleasant to the ears, but "Forest Service 9912" also makes sense as we know it is a road. It also makes it known it is part of the Forest Service from US Forest Service (USFS).

I like FSR-XXX but thought it would just take up more space on the client and also time in TTS.

I also thought of FR-XXX for "Forest Road" but thought that took it too far away from the USFS, which is the Forest Service. I thought that was not worth putting in the word "road."

So, whether it is FS-XXX or FSR-XXX, I am OK with it.

dbraughlr wrote:... I am fine with Waze saying "ess are" because it is short. ..."

Agree with your post, but wanted to point out for clarity for others reading, that the TTS doesn't say "ess are" for the beginning of SR-xxxx. It says "State Route" due to the translation expansion referred to in this thread and the spreadsheet that is kept here. Some of those abbreviations are expanded by the TTS as decided upon by the Waze developers.