Test of Text-to-Speech (TTS) Abbreviations in Waze Clients

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Re: Test of Text-to-Speech (TTS) Abbreviations in Waze Clien

Postby sketch » Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:36 am

I am ready to submit a bunch of old-fashioned state abbreviations with periods (avoid conflict) plus every state abbreviation specifically followed by a hyphen (to attempt to get rid of that nasty pause issue).

I have SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDED a few things from my submissions, including:

K-
M-
N-

because Kansas, Michigan, and Nebraska use those (respectively) for their state highways, and pronounce them as such, and

R.I.
B.C.

because the alternatives without periods are already expanded, so there needs to be a way to say just the letters (in case there's, say, a N.D. Somebody Rd somewhere).

Also, I propose to add the following as "N H", "N J", "N M" . . . "N B", because NH ... NB will already say the state/province name, and to avoid "north H", etc.

N.H.
N.J.
N.M.
N.Y.
N.C.
N.D.
S.C.
S.D.
N.B.
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Re: Test of Text-to-Speech (TTS) Abbreviations in Waze Clien

Postby sketch » Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:12 pm

doctorkb wrote:That's fine, and it's just as possible for us to have a "Divers Lane" as you. The point being made is that this list was devised and was supposed to be followed for the last three years, with no-one bothering to point out this exception.

I'm actually more keen on establishing a standardized list of abbreviations that work in both the US and Canada (i.e. take official CanadaPost and USPS lists and resolve any differences), and making the result a Waze standard...

That's pretty much our goal here. Even within the US we have to resolve differences between the USPS and the MUTCD guidance. MUTCD is specifically for traffic control devices, so it should prevail. Nonetheless, for "Br", the TTS uses the USPS "branch" instead of the MUTCD "bridge", and always has in Waze. So we had to use "Brg" for "bridge". For a long time it seemed like we just had to live with this, but now that we will apparently be able to make some meaningful changes, we should use this opportunity to resolve the list in a way that makes more sense to drivers.
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Re: Test of Text-to-Speech (TTS) Abbreviations in Waze Clien

Postby doctorkb » Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:54 pm

sketch wrote:NA TTS doesn't apply just to Canada, we have to use it down here too. The Wiki isn't always right, and it was even less right the further back you go in its history.


That's fine, and it's just as possible for us to have a "Divers Lane" as you. The point being made is that this list was devised and was supposed to be followed for the last three years, with no-one bothering to point out this exception.

I'm actually more keen on establishing a standardized list of abbreviations that work in both the US and Canada (i.e. take official CanadaPost and USPS lists and resolve any differences), and making the result a Waze standard...

I will advocate for the removal of "Nat" as "National". I don't know why you are arguing as if I am saying that it should be there. The Big List is a compilation of test results. It is NOT a list of how we WANT things to be, it is a list of how things ARE.


Fair enough. Personally, I'd prefer to see the majority usage prevail... rather than pandering to the off-case situations. I have as many DIVERSIONS in Vancouver, BC as seem to be found in Livemap for all of NA with the string "Divers".
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Re: Test of Text-to-Speech (TTS) Abbreviations in Waze Clien

Postby CBenson » Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:53 pm

sketch wrote:I will advocate for the removal of "Nat" as "National".

Me too.
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Re: Test of Text-to-Speech (TTS) Abbreviations in Waze Clien

Postby sketch » Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:45 pm

NA TTS doesn't apply just to Canada, we have to use it down here too. The Wiki isn't always right, and it was even less right the further back you go in its history.

We have been asking for TTS changes for years and only a few months ago did we get the first one (ok, the second one – slashes for pauses was the first, and an outlier, hopefully). So yes, issues that have been around for a while are getting dredged up.

I will advocate for the removal of "Nat" as "National". I don't know why you are arguing as if I am saying that it should be there. The Big List is a compilation of test results. It is NOT a list of how we WANT things to be, it is a list of how things ARE.
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Re: Test of Text-to-Speech (TTS) Abbreviations in Waze Clien

Postby doctorkb » Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:25 pm

CBenson wrote:
doctorkb wrote:"BUS" is also a proper word, but in all caps, it says "Business" -- how is that different?
Seriously? You answered in the question "but in all caps."
doctorkb wrote:If absolutely necessary, it could be set up as a "place in the string" sort of expansion:
Divers Lane is "Divers Lane"
whereas
Lane Divers becomes "Lane Diversion"
Sounds fine to me. But didn't this approach fail with St and Dr, thus we have St. for Saint and Dr. for Doctor?


I'm not sure what happened with the positioning approach. I have seen (and I'm fuzzy on specifics) where "N" doesn't become "North" -- perhaps it was "N Rd" was said "enn Road"? I assumed this was positioning...

I'm ok with DIVERS as the accepted abbreviation here, if we're going to be sticky on not having TTS follow the standard that has been published in the Waze wiki for YEARS... i.e. June 2011 ( https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/index.php?ti ... ldid=11667 ) because of a small handful of conflicts (spotted a half-dozen in the Livemap search)...

Nat, on the other hand shows:
Nat Washington Way
Nat Turner Boulevard
Nat Hoosier Lane
Nat Turner St (different from the Blvd)
Nat Ln

And the search runs out of spots to add more...
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Re: Test of Text-to-Speech (TTS) Abbreviations in Waze Clien

Postby sketch » Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:20 pm

doctorkb wrote:Sketch:
Divers is on the list of CanadaPost abbreviations that has been advocated as the "official" abbreviation list for Canada for several years.

*If* there exists a "Divers Lane", it could even be made better by "Diver's Lane" which is more likely to be the correct spelling anyhow.

Not necessarily. Apostrophes disappear from proper names all the time. You and I both should be aware of that:

[ img ] [ img ]

"BUS" is also a proper word, but in all caps, it says "Business" -- how is that different?

You answered your own question. Because it's in all caps. If there was a "Bus Drivers Rd" you would type "Bus", not "BUS".

Also "Nat" is supposedly pronounced "National" -- but what about a street named after Nat King Cole?

The argument that "because it's a legitimate word" doesn't hold.

Just because something is in the Big List doesn't mean we want it there. It's a testing list – it shows how it is now, not how it should be. "Nat" should say "nat". "Nat'l" and maybe "Nat." and maybe "Natl" should say "National", but "Nat King Cole Dr" should be allowed to be named as such.

There can be an abbreviation for "Diversion" but it cannot be "Divers", period. (It can, however, be "Divers[period]".) There is a conflict.

USPS abbreviations, like CanadaPost abbreviations, are not gospel. They are not designed for driving, they are designed for mail. If we used USPS abbreviations, every road with "NE" in the name would say "Nebraska" instead of "Northeast". We need to be more careful than that instead of copying an entire list of abbreviations uncritically and without checking for possible conflicts. We cannot let that happen again.

If absolutely necessary, it could be set up as a "place in the string" sort of expansion:
Divers Lane is "Divers Lane"
whereas
Lane Divers becomes "Lane Diversion"

We decided a long time ago not to do any of this ever.
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Re: Test of Text-to-Speech (TTS) Abbreviations in Waze Clien

Postby CBenson » Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:14 pm

doctorkb wrote:Sketch:
Divers is on the list of CanadaPost abbreviations that has been advocated as the "official" abbreviation list for Canada for several years.

*If* there exists a "Divers Lane", it could even be made better by "Diver's Lane" which is more likely to be the correct spelling anyhow.
They exist on the live map.
doctorkb wrote:"BUS" is also a proper word, but in all caps, it says "Business" -- how is that different?
Seriously? You answered in the question "but in all caps."
doctorkb wrote:Also "Nat" is supposedly pronounced "National" -- but what about a street named after Nat King Cole?
If we have problems with Nat King Cole (only King Cole Rd shows in a live map search) then we should adjust the abbreviation for National.
doctorkb wrote:The argument that "because it's a legitimate word" doesn't hold.
I disagree.
doctorkb wrote:If absolutely necessary, it could be set up as a "place in the string" sort of expansion:
Divers Lane is "Divers Lane"
whereas
Lane Divers becomes "Lane Diversion"
Sounds fine to me. But didn't this approach fail with St and Dr, thus we have St. for Saint and Dr. for Doctor?
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Re: Test of Text-to-Speech (TTS) Abbreviations in Waze Clien

Postby doctorkb » Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:02 pm

Sketch:
Divers is on the list of CanadaPost abbreviations that has been advocated as the "official" abbreviation list for Canada for several years.

*If* there exists a "Divers Lane", it could even be made better by "Diver's Lane" which is more likely to be the correct spelling anyhow.

"BUS" is also a proper word, but in all caps, it says "Business" -- how is that different?

Also "Nat" is supposedly pronounced "National" -- but what about a street named after Nat King Cole?

The argument that "because it's a legitimate word" doesn't hold.

If absolutely necessary, it could be set up as a "place in the string" sort of expansion:
Divers Lane is "Divers Lane"
whereas
Lane Divers becomes "Lane Diversion"
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Re: Test of Text-to-Speech (TTS) Abbreviations in Waze Clien

Postby sketch » Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:16 pm

That's possible. Although if the signs actually say "Diversion" and you'd have to edit them all to add the period anyway, is it worth it?
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