Test of Text-to-Speech (TTS) Abbreviations in Waze Clients

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Re: TTS and shield for FS-

Postby davielde » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:28 am

sketch wrote:Unless that state's DOT is particularly sadistic, there aren't going to be three roads with the same number at that intersection.

So...close...
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Re: TTS and shield for FS-

Postby dbraughlr » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:50 am

qwaletee wrote:To me, there is. When you hear the word road, you have better mental context.


Is this in contrast to the mental context you have when Waze tells you to turn onto a river, railroad, boardwalk, or runway?

When Waze says, "Turn left on Broadway", I don't wonder whether that means to enter stage left or stage right. I know that it means a street not a theater.

Lots of roads don't have "road" in the name. The point is that regardless of whether Waze says, "State route 99", "C A 99", "California 99", "Highway 99", "State Highway 99", "The 99", or plain "99", the driver should understand it in context.

"Forest Service" is going to be a trail in that context. There are a finite number of turn instructions that Waze gives. I dare say that all are in the context of being on a road.

qwaletee wrote:And when you're already nervous because you aren't sure where you're going, ...

I admit to not knowing what you mean by this. But that is the wrong mental state for operating a motor vehicle at all. Such a person needs to pull over safely somewhere and park. Review the route. Be familiar with the names ahead and the turns to be made. Do whatever it takes to remove the uncertainty. It is so easy with Waze to drag the map to see what is ahead. The turn instruction text is prominently displayed on the screen.

And above all, if Waze tries to route you across a FS-nnxnn road and you don't know what it is, select fastest route or drive somewhere else first. You probably shouldn't be on such a road if it wasn't your intended destination.
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Re: TTS and shield for FS-

Postby dbraughlr » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:00 am

davielde wrote:
sketch wrote:Unless that state's DOT is particularly sadistic, there aren't going to be three roads with the same number at that intersection.

So...close...


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On I-70 W before Clear Spring, MD, that there is a disambiguation sign clarifying that the exit is for MD-68, so to get to I-68 / National Freeway, remain on I-70.

I-68 is a newer freeway (thanks to the late Sen Byrd). The MD-68 number greatly predates the designation of I-68 in 1991.
Last edited by dbraughlr on Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:59 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: TTS and shield for FS-

Postby qwaletee » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:02 am

dbraughlr wrote:
qwaletee wrote:To me, there is. When you hear the word road, you have better mental context.


Is this in contrast to the mental context you have when Waze tells you to turn onto a river, railroad, boardwalk, or runway?

When Waze says, "Turn left on Broadway", I don't wonder whether that means to enter stage left or stage right. I know that it means a street not a theater.

Lots of roads don't have "road" in the name. The point is that regardless of whether Waze says, "State route 99", "C A 99", "California 99", "Highway 99", "State Highway 99", "The 99", or plain "99", the driver should understand it in context.

"Forest Service" is going to be a trail in that context. There are a finite number of turn instructions that Waze gives. I dare say that all are in the context of being on a road.

qwaletee wrote:And when you're already nervous because you aren't sure where you're going, ...

I admit to not knowing what you mean by this. But that is the wrong mental state for operating a motor vehicle at all. Such a person needs to pull over safely somewhere and park. Review the route. Be familiar with the names ahead and the turns to be made. Do whatever it takes to remove the uncertainty. It is so easy with Waze to drag the map to see what is ahead. The turn instruction text is prominently displayed on the screen.

And above all, if Waze tries to route you across a FS-nnxnn road and you don't know what it is, select fastest route or drive somewhere else first. You probably shouldn't be on such a road if it wasn't your intended destination.


That's a little preachy. Some people have enormous aplomb, and don't really worry about anything. Some people are nervous wrecks, and probably should never step behind the wheel. Most of us lie somewhere in between. I'm not talking about complete freak-out in unfamiliar territory, just that say, mildly sinking feeling when you aren't sure whether you're lost. The more alien-sounding the directons at that point, the less reassuring they are.

"Forest Service 123" is alien-sounding. That's it. You think it isn't? We have no common ground to discuss then.

"Forest Service Road 123" is a little more friendly sounding. That's all I'm pointing out, and that's helpful for many.

On top of that, what's the great loss in adding "Road?"
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Re: TTS and shield for FS-

Postby dbraughlr » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:14 am

qwaletee wrote:"Forest Service 123" is alien-sounding. That's it. You think it isn't?


If Waze said "Turn right onto Runway 16L", would that sound alien?
Don't make the turn.

I'm not preaching. I am serious. If "Forest Service" sounds "alien" to you, you do not know what you are getting into and should not make the turn. Either the FS road is your intended destination and you know what you are getting into, or else you need to go some other way. The word "road" would provide false security. They are not "roads" in the sense that people such as yourself think of roads. If you make them sound "friendly", you could be sued for misrepresentation.
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Re: TTS and shield for FS-

Postby sketch » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:16 am

davielde wrote:So...close...
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Haha, well, of course business routes and spurs are often going to have the same number.

dbraughlr wrote:It seems to me that on I-70 W before Clear Spring, MD, that there is a disambiguation sign clarifying that the exit is for MD-68 and to remain on I-70 to get to I-68 / National Freeway.

I-68 is newer freeway (thanks to the late Sen Byrd). The MD-68 number greatly predates the creation of I-68.

There's a similar situation where LA-59 is about 20 miles from I-59 along I-12. There's a sign at the LA-59 exit saying "TO I-59" with an arrow pointing ahead.

But that's for people who aren't using GPS navigation. You're gonna know which road to take based on when Waze gives the instruction.
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Re: TTS and shield for FS-

Postby vectorspace » Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:42 am

dbraughlr wrote:
qwaletee wrote:"Forest Service 123" is alien-sounding. That's it. You think it isn't?


If Waze said "Turn right onto Runway 16L", would that sound alien?
Don't make the turn.

I'm not preaching. I am serious. If "Forest Service" sounds "alien" to you, you do not know what you are getting into and should not make the turn. Either the FS road is your intended destination and you know what you are getting into, or else you need to go some other way. The word "road" would provide false security. They are not "roads" in the sense that people such as yourself think of roads. If you make them sound "friendly", you could be sued for misrepresentation.


I really like the discussion, it's very entertaining. I guess I am not hard-up on either FS-XXX or FSR-XXX. When I talked to the USFS GIS staff, they suggested FSR-XXX at the time. When I looked in the TTS spreadsheet, I saw that FS and FSR were open.

I thought that FS-XXX was shorter and closer to something like SR-XXX for State Route (by the way, I prefer SR-XXX to State Hwy XXX). :-) I agree that FS-XXX does not sound like fully proper English, something is missing. I thought it wouldn't matter because, as mentioned earlier in this thread by others, we abbreviate and say things like turn right on 123. "Road" is redundant but it is somewhat pleasant to the ears, but "Forest Service 9912" also makes sense as we know it is a road. It also makes it known it is part of the Forest Service from US Forest Service (USFS).

I like FSR-XXX but thought it would just take up more space on the client and also time in TTS.

I also thought of FR-XXX for "Forest Road" but thought that took it too far away from the USFS, which is the Forest Service. I thought that was not worth putting in the word "road."

So, whether it is FS-XXX or FSR-XXX, I am OK with it.
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Re: TTS and shield for FS-

Postby dbraughlr » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:34 am

vectorspace wrote:I thought that FS-XXX was shorter and closer to something like SR-XXX for State Route...

"Eye 80 Bus East" doesn't have "road" in it either. But people manage somehow just as they do with "U S 1" or "Aspen Sea Tee". I would have gone for "Biz I-80 East" just because a lot of exits have such long names that Waze can't say them fast enough when multiple instructions come in a short distance at highway speeds. I am fine with Waze saying "ess are" because it is short. I detested the "in a half of a mile" alien-sounding instruction when "in a half mile" is enough, the key word being "half".

I didn't go for "Forest Road" because of the risk of confusion with a "Forest Highway" which is entirely different.
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Re: Test of Text-to-Speech (TTS) Abbreviations in Waze Clien

Postby Thortok2000 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:31 pm

Look at the road.

Point at it.

Begin the sentence: "That is a..."

If your sentence ends with 'interstate' make sure that's in the name. If your sentence ends with 'state highway' or 'state route' make sure that's in the name. Etc.

Would you really say "that is a forest service"? I would think the sentence would make more sense by saying "That is a forest service road."

Essentially, the standard is for the type of road to be fully given, and THEN the number. Is it a 'forest service' or is it a 'forest service road'?

It's like the difference between saying 'state highway 291' and 'state 291'.

I personally vote the 'road' as being necessary for standardization purposes. Do I think it'd work fine without it? Yup. I think '291' is all that's needed and we could drop the 'state hwy' part. But for standardization purposes, I don't think it harms anything to have the couple extra words.
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Re: TTS and shield for FS-

Postby vectorspace » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:55 pm

dbraughlr wrote:... I am fine with Waze saying "ess are" because it is short. ..."


Agree with your post, but wanted to point out for clarity for others reading, that the TTS doesn't say "ess are" for the beginning of SR-xxxx. It says "State Route" due to the translation expansion referred to in this thread and the spreadsheet that is kept here. Some of those abbreviations are expanded by the TTS as decided upon by the Waze developers.
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