WeeeZer14 wrote: I couldn't find a good example, but there has to be a County Route somewhere that is built to Interstate quality. There are many that are much better than 202/206 for sure. Honestly I think the US Highways are the worst in NJ -- probably because they were there first and everyone built on both sides and they had no way to expand the road as traffic grew.

Check out CR-541 in Burlington County...the Mt Holly Bypass north of NJ-38. Not exactly up to Interstate standards, but as close as you'll get. I can't give you a permalink from Tapatalk though...sorry about that.

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Spil wrote:

R4CLucky14 wrote:... Well, to me, it's quite out of place for a State Route to be limited access ...

Not to keep beating up on you for this statement, Lucky, since several others have already done so ... but NY-17 is a great example of a state route that's mostly limited-access, stretching nearly 400 miles from near Erie PA all the way to New Jersey. Granted, a lot of that has been become I-86 over the past few years (most of the western half), with the rest of it in the process of being upgraded to Interstate standards ... but yes, I grew up very accustomed to the idea of NY-17 being a limited-access state route. (Of course, NY-60, NY-5, and others which were also in my home area were nothing close to that. )

Not so much in PA, but in NJ, most of the state routes are at least partially limited access in all but the most rural sections of the state. As a result, a high percentage of the state routes in New Jersey within maybe 10 miles of Philadelphia are designated as Major Highways or Freeways. NJ Rtes 38, 42, 70, 73 & 90 are all designated as Major Highway or Freeway...this is why the 500 series county roads were determined to be minor highways; they're really an extension of the state network. Even some of those are built to Major Highway standards. CR-541 through Burlington County includes a 6 to 8 lane divided section with jughandles that connects I-295 to the NJ Turnpike and the partially limited access Mt Holly Bypass.

Also, I need to point out in Philadelphia that we also have several at grade intersections on I-676. We have a very large, very historical section of the city where the Ben Franklin Bridge (opened in 1926) connects right into the at-grade local street network. So we either have big, arching flyover ramps connecting the bridge and I-676 to I-95, or we have Franklin Square, Independence Hall, the Constitution Center, etc. This section of I-676 is designated a Major Highway...that is an example of a demotion that is clearly warranted.

All these examples are just to show that while there needs to be some standard for how to designate roads based on US/State/County hierarchy, there also needs to be some state-wide standardization since every DOT does things a different way.

Still being rather new this I am in your shoes and still find this subject confusing. I have been reading others opinions here on the forum, and like HavanaDay's guide. Even then I think there are cases when a US Hwy should be demoted to minor or State Hwy demoted to primary.

(Keep in mind, I'm talking about rural areas more so than urban areas)

In East Tennessee, we have some highways (US and SR's) that are of near-Interstate quality with at-grade crossings, with barely any stoplights, if any. These are typically 2 lanes in each direction with a wide right shoulder and either a middle-turning lane or a grass median, with left-turn deceleration ramps.

I've been marking these routes, whether US or a Tennessee Route, as a Major highway. I've also, for aesthetics, have been trying to not downgrade these roads in construction zones or in areas where TDOT has not upgraded the road to this quality.

US-11 makes me scratch my head, personally, for example. It's considered major in all the TDOT long-range maps, and considered more major on the Official Transportation Map for 2012, but most of it is worse than some State Routes crossing it - but then again, it's parallel to an Interstate - so why upgrade it to a near Interstate-quality road?

Here is what US-11 looks like (for most of it outside of Cleveland and Athens, TN):
https://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1 ... jpg?psid=1

But, here is another US Hwy, 411 (parallel route quite a ways from I-75 and US-11):

(This is typical construction, from what I've seen, for the more major US and some Primary State Routes)
https://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1 ... jpg?psid=1

Similarly, this is SR-30, a east-west route:
https://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1 ... jpg?psid=1

This is the typical construction for most Primary State Routes (In this case, Highway 72 is one of a decent number of east-west Primary State Routes):
https://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1 ... jpg?psid=1

Last, but not least, Tennessee has many Secondary State Routes. This is Highway 322 - a literal east-west route:
https://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1 ... jpg?psid=1

After granting all this information, here is what I'm pressed to do (I've primarily have followed US=Major, SR=Minor, but I think that doesn't work all the time):

Mark roads like US-411 and SR-30 as "Major Highway" (even for stretches not completely up to par, but are under construction or will be in the near future), for aesthetic and functional reasons.

Mark roads like US-11, SR-72, and SR-322 as "Minor Highway": Basically, the quality of SR-72 is better than US-11 and SR-322 as a whole, and I'd like to mark it as such, but SR-322 and US-11 are still major routes - and are also on Transportation Maps. Marking it as a Primary Street would also conflict with local roads that are exactly that - local.

WeeeZer14 wrote:One is a state route, one is a US highway, and one is an interstate. Which is which?

Since I have a chance to mock NJ (I can never truly pass that up, esp. North Jersey)

A) Interstate
B) State Highway
C) US Highway


Okay, /joke. Now, since US Highway's are typically major routes through cities and towns, which often have annoying politicians putting the speed limit down to 30mph when there is no traffic:

A) US Highway
B) Interstate
C) State Highway

WeeeZer14 wrote:R4CLucky14's joke answer is correct actually!

I did not see that one coming, literally.

jasonh300 wrote:Weeezer, the only on that's really out of the ordinary is the first one, which I recognized at first glance...we've had that discussion already.

Obviously, none of them are the NJ Turnpike because there are no barricades or barrels strewn about the road.

Well, to me, it's quite out of place for a State Route to be limited access, but an Interstate to not be. Unless New Jersey requires State Routes to be limited access, but still - and Interstate is Federally funded more-so than any other road. And from the map, I'd say New Jersey (and New York) gets quite a bit of that pie.

I guess it's just really weird to me. Like how my favorite New York team is in New Jersey

WeeeZer14 wrote:

R4CLucky14 wrote:Well, to me, it's quite out of place for a State Route to be limited access, but an Interstate to not be. Unless New Jersey requires State Routes to be limited access, but still - and Interstate is Federally funded more-so than any other road. And from the map, I'd say New Jersey (and New York) gets quite a bit of that pie.

I guess it's just really weird to me. Like how my favorite New York team is in New Jersey

No requirement for State Routes to be of any quality. Look at NJ-33, 34, 35, or 36 near the shore for examples. Even NJ-18 has other sections that are more typical of what you'd expect for an urban highway.

Remember that for the NY region, many of the highways existed long before the Interstate system was created. Here in TN we are lucky that the Interstates could be laid out with fewer constraints. Except for those pesky mountains

Yeah, the only guideline/rule we break on all the Interstates I've traveled is I-24's sharp curve. (Rated for 45 MPH). Maybe they'll upgrade it to a tunnel or something in the next 40 years or so...since it backs up the highway in both ways.

WeeeZer14 wrote:

R4CLucky14 wrote:Well, to me, it's quite out of place for a State Route to be limited access, but an Interstate to not be.

Your statement has two parts, but to address the first, I'm in Nashville this week and while driving tonight I was on the Briley Pkwy, TN-155, which is limited access. Which reminded me of your comment. And Chattanooga has TN-153 which is limited access. And Knoxville has James White Pkwy, TN-168/TN-71. And Memphis has Sam Cooper Blvd which isn't even a state highway but is interstate quality (it was to be the path of I-40).

So we have a few examples of TN state highways that are limited access. Interstates are well behaved for the most part, except I-40 headed into NC where there are tight turns and a few grade crossings for side roads.

Yes, I fixed up TN-155 about a week ago on Waze, and I just finished with TN-319 (DuPont Pkwy), and unsplit TN-153 where it downgrades to a Major Highway until US-27.

But my statement was actually tied together. This is probably better phrasing: I find it odd for a Interstate to not be limited access (or very very close to it) WHILE a State Highway is built to Interstate standards.

I'm use to State Routes being limited access around here - I typically get to drive on 153. But it's not like Tennessee disregards I-24 and decides to put in a few stoplights while a nearby State Route (153) is built to be a Freeway.

AlanOfTheBerg wrote: Because there is zero effect between major and minor on routing, I see it as a really minor thing and use it to visually separate, quickly (with color, sorry color-blind folks) state routes from US routes from interstates. I see little reason, currently, for spending a lot of brain time on the merits of the various opinions any longer. We've spent so much time and never come to a satisfactory conclusion.
.

Thanks for this, I will follow suit. I found out today the same zero effect on routing occurs with Street and Primary Street. I am going to adapt the US Hwy as a major highway also.