qwaletee wrote:...

I agree with everything you said qualette. Also, I appreciate jbucklee for personifying the confusion that the current beginning and junior editors might have when looking for guidance.

Absolutely "When in doubt spell it out", and "What does the BGS and LGS say?" are both excellent fall-back positions when things are unclear.

Nick, congrats on making CM.

There's really no gray area. Only abbreviations on the approved list should be used. Anything that isn't should not be used. The "suffixes" idea is an additional rule to restrict the laces where abbreviations are to be used. It never meant "always use an abbreviation for a suffix, even if it is not an approved one."

Also, as far as I recall, there is no suffix rule. The rule is actually that the core components of the name should not be abbreviated, while ancillary components can be if appropriate. So, for example, if there is a street named after "John Road" name "John Road Street, you would abbreviate the Street to St but not Road to Rd, because Road is part of the core name.

Does that seem academic? Maybe a little, but it has some applications. For example, prefixes also qualify, the same way as suffixes; the core/ancillary covers both while suffix only explains a subset. Another example: Say there's a north-south road named Confusing Highway. North of Main Ave, it is called Confusing Highway North, while south of there is is Confusing Highway South (which numbering starting at 1 on both sides of Main). North and South are definitely suffixes, but they are also core, and probably shouldn't be abbreviated, while Highway is an INFIX - it is a suffix to "Confusing" but not to the entire name, so it should be abbreviated.

I had not looked at the page in some time. I do recall previous discussions in the forum (hopefully not just GHO!) that are in-line with what I described. PZ wrote the current page less than a year ago, but "inherited" much of the language from the parent global page. That page first got this language in Feb 2014, in a Kent Smith edit. Kent is our Wiki tech guru and a champ, so I don't take his word lightly. However, 1) I can't find a Wiki Updates forum post for this page for that time period, and 2) I suspect the terminology was not meant to be read so strictly, and shoudl posisbly have been more carefuly considered.

"Recommendation" reflects the fact that we know that they work; anything other than recommended should not be used without testing (and should then be recommended, discarded, or fixed).

"Convention" reflects the general approach we take on where to CONSIDER abbreviations.

Neither means that you must find a way to abbreviate, or that one overrides the other. To quote sketch (our most senior Global Champ), "when in doubt, spell it out." Even if the recommendation and convention (to use the current terminology) both indicate an abbreviation, that doesn't mean you must do it. It means you should consider abbreviating in those cases, and most likely you will abbreviate. But if you have a reason not to, then don't, whether due to doubt (or certainty!) about whether it will technically work, or you just feel that it will be awkward or hard to read for the Wazer, or some other reason.

The rules as I described them are meant to abbreviate what can be abbreviated, without confusion, or wrong TTS. Ancillary parts of the name are less likely to cause confusion even if not spelled out, especially if they are very common names with very common abbreviations. The main part of the name is more likely to be difficult to understand and identify if abbreviated. More often, those common ancillary parts come after the main name, not before. Hence, why it describes suffixes, and why it may dumb down the rule to specify matching prefixes exactly; and also why the specific exceptions are given (though unfortunately, they are given as examples without a general rule to guide those examples).

As stated, I think the prefix handling in the wiki is bad. For one, we don't always have consistency in the signs, and sometimes we don't even have signs. For that matter, sometimes directionals (NESW) are prefixes (East Main St), but street signs may not include the directional at all. I'd rather see it follow the same rule as suffixes AND add a qualifier for both prefixes and suffixes, that if the street name is short and there are street signs that do not abbreviate, it is OK to spell out the prefixes and/or suffixes.

Thanks. Oh, and apologies for an absolutely enormous wall of text.

I believe it is time to introduce a change proposal in the US forum. If you're up for it, describe the intended rule, the variance from the existing rule, the variance of both from the wiki text, and offer to put up a draft revision.

jbucklee wrote:

jbucklee wrote:Since these changes are fairly important, would it be difficult to add it to the local validator scripts?

Not to be a bugaboo, but no one acknowledged my validator comment. Any chance it could be implemented?

The validator localization scripts are each maintained by different people. Shouldn't be overly difficult to add Pke and Wy to the already long list of bad abbreviations, but you would need to bring it up to the relevant SMs (who should either be the maintainer or know the maintainer).

(P.S. I'll see what I can do for your AM in WV)

We currently have guidance on this. Pike and Way are not on the list of names that should be abbreviated.

https://wiki.waze.com/wiki/Abbreviation ... ronyms/USA

So for your example, you would use #4.


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They are all good to be used in the US. A check mark means they will work only in the US, as the abbreviations aren't set up for those outside the county


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While you're waiting for a local script, you can also use this custom expression to search for suffixes. I haven't used it in a while though, so look out for some edits this evening as I bring it up to current standards. This will look at a full road name though, so pay attention for false hits (e.g. Tunnel Rd will be highlighted though it is up to standards).

EDIT: Had to put some line breaks in to display it all. Remove the spaces to create one long string.

Template: ${street}
RegExp: / (Alternate|Alley|Apartments|Avenue|Beach|Bridge|Brg|Business|Boulevard|Bridge|

Connector|Center|Cntr|Circle|Corner|Corners|Course|Court|Crescent|Causeway|Cove|Drive|

Express|Extension|Exd|Heights|Highway|Lane|La|Loop|Motorway|National|Park|Parkway|

Place|Plc|Point|Plaza|Road|Route|Scenic|Saint|Square|Street|Terrace|Throughway|

Trail|Tunnel|Turnpike|Wy)$/i