So, similar to turn restrictions, if a toll road goes to nowhere, like Pike's Peak, then that is absolutely the only way to get there, and Waze is going to route you on that toll road even if you have avoid tolls turned on. That would be an argument to allowing those Roads to an End be set as toll roads. However, that would really serve no purpose. Again, it's the only way to get there so you would have been required to set the destination in that area, not to a destination somewhere else.

harling wrote:

HavanaDay wrote:

gettingthere wrote:But the difference is that that tolls are solely for the privilege of driving on the road, bridge, area. Park fees are primarily to visit the park. Entertainment.

Although Park fees and parking fees would be a nice feature (in the distant future) I agree that they shouldn't be used as a toll road unless it is a viable option as an alternate route to somewhere besides the park.

If someone sets a destination inside Yosemite, and the roads through it are designated as toll roads, every route there will have the same penalty (assuming they handle it the same as parking lot roads), so I wouldn't anticipate a lot of problems stemming from making them toll roads.

On the other hand, if someone selects "avoid toll roads" and then Waze routes them over any road that demands money to proceed, they aren't going to care whether it's a toll, or a fee, or a surcharge. "Avoid toll road" means "don't make me pay," period.

"Avoid toll road" doesn't mean "don't make me pay at all", it means "take me to my destination while avoiding roads that charge me only for the privilege of driving on them, not for being allowed to enter my destination".

For example, if I were to decide to drive to Disney (a place that charges for parking as well as admission and pretty much everything else including breathing their air ) I would expect to be routed to Disney's parking area without paying a toll on the way, but once I arrived I would fully expect to have to pull up and talk to the overly nice parking attendant who would cheerfully take my money to let me park my car so I can then go pay them more money to enter their fine establishment.

It doesn't matter if I have "Avoid Toll Road" selected or not, it's my destination, I choose to go there, they charge me for going there, there is no choice in the matter, and people expect it.

I've read through this discussion and mentally tinkered with to mark or not to mark park/entrance fee roads as tolls, and arrived back at my original recommendation: If you have to pay a fee to use it, toll it.

I am hopeful the Waze routing algorithms will simply advise the user that the best route includes tolls, "Avoid: Yes or No."

So who's going to mark the Yellowstone roads as tolls? http://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/f ... ations.htm

mapcat wrote:Re parks: Do you think someone wanting to avoid toll roads would be surprised if they got to a state park and saw an entrance fee? I never thought of that as a toll before. And if there's some sort of "Your route has tolls" message on the screen anytime Waze routes you through any tolled segment, this could cause problems.

That's effectively what Trail Ridge Road is in Colorado. It's the part of US-34 that goes through Rocky Mountain National Park. There's also Pikes Peak and Mount Evans, both national parks and in those two cases they're roads to nowhere.

gettingthere wrote:A park entrance fee is to visit a park. A parking lot fee is to park your car. A speeding ticket is when you are driving too fast. These are NOT toll roads.

Toll Roads are a road with a fee specifically to use the road. Period.

So, for the example of Trail Ridge Rd (US-34), to travel from Estes Park to Granby using US-34 you need to pay a fee, is it a Toll or a Park Fee? Officially it's a Park Fee, but effectively it's a Toll as a portion of that fee is for road maintenance. There's other routes, but they're much much longer.

gettingthere wrote:And that road is commonly traveled by people who are not visiting the park?

It's a logical route from Estes Park to certain other towns. It wouldn't be used for going to Ski Resorts as it's a closed road during the winter.

gettingthere wrote:Ok, so maybe there are a couple of exceptions. But this should not be the standard for parks. (of any type)

The entrance to Disney World is not a toll road!

How I see it is: is it a road you'd use to get from A->B where neither A or B are on it. IOW it can be used as transit and not just a destination (places with entrance fees). This would mean I woul remove the toll flag from Mt Evans and Pike's Peak as both lead nowhere.

It's all my phone's fault for using Tapatalk.

gettingthere wrote:Why not just mark the Parks as private roads instead? That is more accurate and should prevent routing through them unless it's your origin, destination or the only feasible way.

Because they're not private? Since it was brought up, Yellowstone is another situation where there's US Highways going through it, yet you need to pay a park fee to drive it. It's not technically a Toll Road since the fee is for the park in general, yet as far as someone using those highways to get to some destination on the other side is concerned it is.

gettingthere wrote:I was at Yellowstone a few weeks ago. I can't imagine anyone will be cutting through that Park and paying the entrance fee if they are not actually visiting the park. It's way, way out of the way to cut through the park to go anywhere but the park. I would never think of that as a toll road and expect Waze to consider it as a toll road for routing.

Really? There's a few.

That's a bit unfair however, as the non-toll option adds 5 hours to the trip, however that +5 hours may be the only option during the winter.

gettingthere wrote:Toll Road is a standardized term. We are interpreting this as 'fee road' in this thread. A fee road is not a toll road.

Part of the fee paid to enter a national park goes towards road maintenance. How is this different than say a Congestion Zone charge or a Toll on a bridge designed to encourage mass-transit or influence traffic patterns where the bridge has long since been paid for and the collected tolls far exceed maintenance costs?