Landmark - Best Practices US

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Re: Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby vectorspace » Thu May 02, 2013 12:27 am

I enter small bodies of water because they were never on the water layer in Waze and never showed up on the client. I think they are vital visual references to understand the map that is displayed on the client and should be entered. If you mark them as sea/lake/levee, then Waze can always choose to not display them.
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Re: Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby vectorspace » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:26 pm

Another word in support of landmarks, under whatever best practices...

I just remembered that I had not mentioned how I have used landmarks. From time to time, I will see or search for something graphically by scrolling the map. I then find a landmark or cross streets where I want to go, touch and hold the map to bring up the flag, then click the arrow and select go to begin navigating. This graphical approach needs no typing.

I have done that to bring the kids or dog to a park, looking for a store or mall, etc. Scroll, point, go ... Sometimes faster than search when I know what or where but not a name.
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Re: Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby txemt » Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:41 am

I haven't had any issues with the SAT airport since....I started editing a year ago, then something changed recently, and I can't figure it out. It's landmarked and last edited by me a long time ago, then locked at a level 5. In looking at it, someone added 2 parking lots (short and long term) on August 3rd, but those reports were before that was done. :\
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Re: Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby txemt » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:41 pm

I've started getting URs for the San Antonio airport. When I plug it into the nav, it directs me to the front entrance, but people are going being routed to the back, lately and I don't know what's changed.
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Re: Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby TruckOttr » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:23 pm

What I heard, very resoundingly clear from Ehud, was that he wanted more content. He probably wanted more content than the editors were capable of being comfortable (for various good technical and emotional reasons). So, debating about putting in POIs or not, deleting them, etc., seems a bit silly when the app could do well with more content, both that which shows on the map and that which does not.


Now that it's official that Google is acquiring Waze, does it make sense for us to either hold off or check with Waze to see what their direction and intentions are? Although this was discussed in May, it's quite possible that this will be changing with the acquisition, even with Waze remaining operationally independent for a few years.
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Re: Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby TruckOttr » Thu May 30, 2013 9:31 pm

jasonh300 wrote:
YES!!!

Unfortunately, it isn't repositionable, and it seems to try to computer the geometric center of the landmark, but how it arrives at that is often a mystery.


It's a centroid of the polygon formed by the landmark. It helps when determining if a landmark is visible or not, when it should be drawn and in what detail. It's not ideal for use as the navigation point for a landmark. Typically one would use one of the polygon edges and navigate to that edge.

The use of centroids is one of the reasons that Waze will sometimes route you to the backside of an address vs. the street that the address is on.
Last edited by TruckOttr on Thu May 30, 2013 9:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby TruckOttr » Tue May 28, 2013 1:30 am

doctorkb wrote:Cousin Larry gives you some good data... "if you pass the red house with the white fence, you've gone too far"... Google gives you some good data... "turn left on 123 St".

Why is there such a problem with Waze giving both?

I'm not suggesting every little thing be marked... I've deleted my fair share of parking lot landmarks.

But really... unless there's a church on two out of every four corners for 10 blocks, what's the harm in listing them?

Same with the cemeteries?

Sometimes it's just plain interesting. And I'd certainly prefer to know about the cemetery I'm driving next to, than where the nearest Ramada is, with an ugly call-out to point it out.


Because those change and (most importantly) editors change. In less traveled and less monitored areas, there are a lot of casual editors who edit a few times and then disappear forever. if each editor decided to add what was important for them to get from Point A to Point B, we'll have a crazyquilt of landmarks with no contextual knowledge of why they were put there / modified after a few years.

Editors replicate what they see. If they see a landmark for "Bill Smith's Farm" they'll add another landmark for "Jane's Barbershop", etc.

And also, along with "what's important to you may not be important to someone else" there's also "what's interesting to you may not be interesting to someone else". If editors added everything that they were interested in, we would have a mess.

Exhibit A: https://www.waze.com/editor/#?zoom=2&lat=38.2537&lon=-121.50849&layers=BFTFFTTTTTTTFTTTTTFTTTFTT&landmarks=667175
Last edited by TruckOttr on Tue May 28, 2013 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby TruckOttr » Mon May 27, 2013 11:13 pm

daknife wrote: The GPS won't know about the red barn with the faded tobacco ad, or the Oak tree painted red white and blue, or the Smiths farm, or the church (not all churchs are easily recognized as churches and don't always show up on paper maps anyway.)


You will find landmarks like this in Waze currently.
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Re: Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby TruckOttr » Mon May 27, 2013 10:22 pm

A landmark is an important item on the map useful for visual reference in navigation by the user or by POI Search (of its own data) by Waze. Examples might be visually apparent corner businesses, shopping malls, rivers or bodies of water (if not in the water layer), etc.


I have concerns about landmarks in general, but specifically this particular principle and the overall lack of perspective about how "importance" and "relevance" plays out in editors' minds.

What may be important to you, may not be important to anyone else. Everyone has their own definition of importance and relevance. You may not think that little church on the corner may be important, but to a Wazer it may be their entire world and they're gonna map it. Multiple that out by the number of new/casual editors with their own world perspective and you start to see chaos. I see that playing out on the Waze map all over the place. Pick any two parts of the Waze map and compare them. Vastly different, even in the same community. This leads to an inconsistent experience to the Wazer, especially to new Wazers.

For example, what defines a "small business"? sq feet/traffic/income/global dominance/brand awareness?

You can attempt to fall back on the old adage of editors should just use common sense, but the problem is that for one to develop common Waze-map sense they have to have been editing for a while and gain experience. Right now, any brand new editor can add anything they want from Day 1 without any checks and balances. This leads to more experienced editors chasing other editors around to clean up after them. In areas that are not as well monitored, this leads to bizarro maps until someone comes along to clean it up. Once again this leads to an inconsistent Wazer experience, leaving the hapless Wazer wondering what the heck is going on with the maps. "Why did my little church landmark disappear?" "How come I can't see any McDonalds in this town?" etc. A sure fire way for new users to get frustrated with the app and delete it.
Last edited by TruckOttr on Mon May 27, 2013 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Landmark - Best Practices US

Postby sketch » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:47 pm

PhantomSoul wrote:Two things:

1. I thought the CONST ZN suffix was only for segments totally disconnected from the road network during construction but expected to be reconnected at some point in the future. We do this instead of deleting them to avoid losing the road metric data they've collected, and the CONST ZN serves as note to anyone reviewing the map for disconnected segments as to why it's there and disconnected. So I'm not sure what the fuss about TTS trying to read CONST ZN is about.

As far as I'm aware, this is not the case; at least, this is not how it's been used around here.

Either way, I'm pretty sure it predates TTS.

IMO it would be better to replace it with "(Under Construction)" if anything. Waze inserts a pause at the open parenthesis and would pronounce it properly; also, it looks better.
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