[USA] Landmark Guidelines - Request for Comments

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[USA] Landmark Guidelines - Request for Comments

Postby AndyPoms » Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:36 pm

Recently a group of Connecticut Editors got together and wrote landmark guidelines for the state. They have been published in the wiki at https://www.waze.com/wiki/index.php/Connecticut_Landmarks. Since their publication several Champs have approached me to use them as a base for national (USA ONLY) guidelines. Below you will find the National Guidelines that the Waze Champs have created.

Before these guidelines are published the Champs are looking for input from the general userbase. Please comment below on any specific item(s) if you feel changes should be considered. You'll notice several places with text that says "Please see local Wiki Pages / local Area Managers for information on what is considered "Major" and mapped for this category in your area." This is to allow flexibility for local needs.

There are also a few places that refer to ongoing discussions, this refers to the fact that the Waze Champs are currently working with the Waze Staff to sort out some misconceptions about landmarks (snapping to roads, suppression of various reports, etc) and will also be creating a page that better addresses the Theory of Operation behind Landmarks shortly.

This discussion topic will be open for comments for about a week (longer if the discussion warrants).

PLEASE keep your comments to specific guidelines and leave the more general discussion (i.e. should landmarks snap to roads) for a later discussion.

As always, the world-wide rule of "don't map individual businesses" still applies.

    1 Transportation
      1.1 Gas Station - We've heard from Waze that we SHOULD be creating landmarks for Gas Stations in the US, and there will be changes to the Gas Station system in the US soon. Map as fence line, make sure the landmark does not snap to roads. At this time, the "Name" property should be set to the brand of the gas station (i.e. "Mobil", not "Joe's Town Mobil & Repair"). Due to a rise in independent stations, several have adopted generic names, for these stations, use whatever shows prominently up on the signage. NOTE: Gas Station Landmarks suppress Automatic System Detected Errors and as such care should be taken to ensure they don't snap to roads.
      1.2 Toll booth - Not Mapped.
      1.3 Terminal - Not used at this time. Not defined at this time.
      1.4 Airport - Mapped at the fence line, include parking lots/terminals that are close to the airport in one landmark. Try to avoid crossing non-airport roads with the landmark.
      1.5 Train station - Mapped at the fence line, including parking lot(s) in one landmark.
      1.6 Bus Station / Bus Terminal - Mapped at the fence line, including parking lot(s) in one landmark.
      1.7 Sea Port - Not Mapped.
      1.8 Parking Lot - Listed below are the ONLY parking lots mapped with landmarks, there are several other landmarks that are mapped to cover parking lots associated with those venues. NOTE: Parking Lot Landmarks suppress & Automatic System Detected Errors and as such care should be taken to ensure they don't snap to roads.
      • Park & Ride/Commuter Lots are mapped at the fence line, make sure the landmark does not snap to roads. Name these the same way your local State DOT names them (i.e. "Park & Ride" or "Commuter Lot" - no specific names as it would get too long. These lots should also have unnamed Parking Lot Roads in accordance with the information in Road Types wiki page.
      • Pay Parking Lots (Private & Municipal) - Not mapped at this time, however, they are currently under discussion. This is possible POI situation, also the |P| icon that appears when nearing destination is generated from results from FourSquare. Incorrect |P| pins should be corrected on the FourSquare website.
      Please note that parking lots at businesses are not mapped.
      1.9 Junction/Interchange - Not mapped at this time, however please leave any you see on the map alone as we are currently testing what effect, if any, these have on navigation.
      1.10 Bridge - Major Bridges Mapped as a rectangle or arc only to include the road. Please see local Wiki Pages / local Area Managers for information on what is considered "Major" and mapped for this category in your area.
      1.11 Tunnel - Major Tunnels Mapped as a rectangle or arc only to include the road. Please see local Wiki Pages / local Area Managers for information on what is considered "Major" and mapped for this category in your area.
      1.12 Subway station - Not Mapped
      1.13 Ferry lane - We really need a Ferry Road Type and an Avoid Ferry option in the client to do this properly, but for now mapped as a rectangle or arc only to include the route.
      1.14 Car Rental - Not Mapped. Handled by POI Search.
      1.15 Garage - Not Mapped. Handled by POI Search.
    2 Leisure
      2.1 Park - Mapped at the fence line, including parking lot(s) in one landmark. Further definition in the works, but Private Golf Courses are not included.
      2.2 Museum / Visitor Center / Monument - Mapped at the fence line, including parking lot(s) in one landmark.
      2.3 Mall/Shopping Center - Major Malls/Shopping Centers Mapped at the fence line, including parking lot(s) in one landmark. A "Major" Mall/Shopping Center is typically defined by those having 45 or more individual stores in the complex. Please see local Wiki Pages / local Area Managers for information on what is considered "Major" and mapped for this category in your area. Please note that strip malls & grocery store plazas typically do NOT meet this definition.
      2.4 Convenience Store / Kiosk - Not Mapped. Handled by POI Search.
      2.5 Restaurant / Bar / Coffee Shop - Not Mapped. Handled by POI Search.
      2.6 Stadium / Sports Facility - Mapped as building shape, adjacent parking lots are mapped using Parking Lot Roads.
      2.7 Hotel / Motel / Guest Room - Not Mapped. Handled by POI Search.
      2.8 Club/Concert Hall - Major Clubs/Concert Halls Mapped at the fence line, including associated parking lot(s) (if attached) in one landmark. Venues are mapped if their PRIMARY function is as a Concert/Performance Venue with a capacity of at least 1,000 people. For venues with multiple stages/halls, use the total combined capacity of all the individual auditoriums in the venue.
      2.9 Beach - Not used. Mapped as 2.1 Park
      2.10 Camp site / RV Park - Not Mapped. Handled by POI Search.
      2.11 Casino - Not Mapped. Handled by POI Search.
      2.12 Marina - Not Mapped. Handled by POI Search.
      2.13 Promenade / Boardwalk - Not Mapped. Handled by POI Search.
      2.14 Store/stall - Not Mapped. Handled by POI Search.
    3 Nature
      3.1 Island - Not Mapped.
      3.2 Sea/Lake/Levee - Not Mapped. Handled by Waze Water Layer. Waze is currently working on issues with the water layer. Once this work is complete, this guideline will be reevaluated to determine if bodies of water not included on the water layer should be mapped.
      3.3 River/Stream - Not Mapped. Handled by Waze Water Layer. Waze is currently working on issues with the water layer. Once this work is complete, this guideline will be reevaluated to determine if bodies of water not included on the water layer should be mapped.
      3.4 Forest/Grove - Not Mapped.
      3.5 Farmland - Not Mapped.
      3.6 Gravel - Not Mapped.
      3.7 Danger Zone - Not used at this time. Not defined at this time.
    4 Public
      4.1 Religious Site - Major religious sites are Mapped at the fence line, including associated parking lot(s) (if attached) in one landmark. "Major" is typically defined as a site which someone would make a pilgrimage to/visit similar to a tourist attraction. Please see local Wiki Pages / local Area Managers for information on what is considered 'Major' and mapped for this category in your area.
      4.2 Bank - Not Mapped. Handled by POI Search.
      4.3 Office Building - Not Mapped. Handled by POI Search.
      4.4 Industry - Not Mapped. Handled by POI Search.
      4.5 Public Building - Libraries and Court Houses Mapped at the fence line, including associated parking lot(s) (if attached) in one landmark.
      4.6 Tourist Site / Attraction - Mapped at the fence line, including parking lot(s) in one landmark. Further definition in the works.
      4.7 ATM - Not Mapped. Handled by POI Search.
      4.8 Pharmacy - Not Mapped. Handled by POI Search.
      4.9 Supermarket/Market - Not Mapped. Handled by POI Search.
    5 Public Service
      5.1 Hospital/Clinic - Hospitals Mapped at the fence line, including associated parking lot(s) (if attached) in one landmark.
      5.2 Correction Facility / Prison - Mapped at the fence line, including parking lot(s) in one landmark.
      5.3 Military Site - Mapped at the fence line, including parking lot(s) in one landmark. This landmark is used for smaller facilities like Armories and National Guard Training Facilities. Larger facilities such as Naval Submarine Base New London is NOT landmarked, but given it's own City name.
      5.4 Government / Municipal Building - City/Town Halls & associated facilities Mapped at the fence line, including associated parking lot(s) (if attached) in one landmark. Public Works garages & work yards are not mapped. The Department of Motor Vehicles/Registry of Motor Vehicles is mapped using this type, and the name is spelled out (i.e. "Dept of Motor Vehicles"), do not use abbreviations such as "DMV" or "RMV".
      5.5 Police Station - Mapped at the fence line, including associated parking lot(s) (if attached) in one landmark. ALL landmarks are named "Police Dept" for local departments. Special naming for state police departments is acceptable - please see local Wiki Pages / local Area Managers for information on how to name them.
      5.6 University / College / Academy - Mapped at the fence line, including associated parking lot(s) (if attached) in one landmark. Do not use landmarks to map individual buildings (even if they could qualify as another landmark type), parking lots, or other campus features. This is due to the way landmarks are displayed in the client.
      5.7 School / Kindergarten / Junior High / High School - Mapped at the fence line, including associated parking lot(s) (if attached) in one landmark.
      5.8 Cemetery - Typically not mapped and handled by POI Search. HOWEVER, those cemeteries with historical significance or a significant tourist draw can be mapped using this type. Internal roads, if needed, are mapped using the Parking Lot Road Type whether or not the landmark is used. Please see local Wiki Pages / local Area Managers for information on which, if any, cemeteries are mapped for this category in your area.
      5.9 Fire Department/Emergency Service - Mapped at the fence line, including associated parking lot(s) (if attached) in one landmark. ALL landmarks are named "Fire Dept".
      5.10 Post Office - Mapped at the fence line, including associated parking lot(s) (if attached) in one landmark. ALL landmarks are named "Post Office" - do not use abbreviation "USPS".
    6 Other
      6.1 Other - Not used at this time. Not defined at this time.
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Re: [USA] Landmark Guidelines - Request for Comments

Postby AndyPoms » Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:03 am

CrackedLCD wrote:
pjlasl wrote:Sure thing. From what I have seen, those parking lot roads/private roads get abused in commercial areas quite a bit...you should not have roads going around McDonalds ...


Well yes, you should, if it serves to suppress problem reports. This will be especially important if Waze globally implements the landmark guideline from the OP that states that we should only use the parking lot landmark for municipal & pay lots.
We're trying to figure out where that came from in the Wiki (as it used to be the opposite), remember ANYONE can edit the wiki and sneak in changes like that. The wiki also states that small parking lots should not be mapped - contradicting the info about drive-thrus. A MP is "something to look at", not necessarily "something that needs to be fixed. Also, Municipal & Pay Lots are listed as NOT MAPPED at this time (due to the |P| Icon) - read the bullet point.

CrackedLCD wrote:Before this landmarks discussion heated up and there wasn't much consensus, I did a test in my area and used the parking lot landmark to suppress automatic reports, naming the lots for some of the businesses they covered. It did suppress traffic reports but it cluttered the maps a bit. I'm going to do a bit of editing and convert some of those to parking lot roads so my area falls more in line with these guidelines. I know they're not set in stone yet but this is a good time to get my area into shape.
Parking Lot Landmarks do NOT suppress Automatic Traffic Jams, only Missing Road MPs.
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Re: [USA] Landmark Guidelines - Request for Comments

Postby AndyPoms » Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:55 am

vectorspace wrote:Oh yea... here is another landmark item that I think might have value in the Wiki and plolicy around landmarks.

When I started editing, I noticed a lot of the base map items, like a cemetery or a golf course (they were already in there) had boundaries that went directly to roads. That is, the edge of the landmark was aligned with a road exactly.

I wondered why until I tried to make a landmark like that for a whole city block (I think a fairground or something like that) and realized that the landmarks snap to roads at a certain level or distance from your cursor to a road. I guessed this was causing it when some early map titans were making the universe.

At the time I was perusing the forums and found that some people were really into how meticulous their edits were both in roads and landmarks. Some people were amazingly AR in how well things looked and had nodes on landmarks that could have zoomed into the inch-level for accuracy. This seemed kind of a waste of time and bytes in a Waze database when everything was going to be rendered to an iPhone screen or something a bit larger.

In any case, I decided I didn't like the way that landmarks that snapped to roads looked on the client (somewhat confusing without a gap), and would purposefully set the landmark a short distance from the road so it was not on the road.

It would be great if the Champs would address this editing approach in whatever they write up.

Regards,
Vectorspace


This is covered in the first post:
AndyPoms wrote:There are also a few places that refer to ongoing discussions, this refers to the fact that the Waze Champs are currently working with the Waze Staff to sort out some misconceptions about landmarks (snapping to roads, suppression of various reports, etc) and will also be creating a page that better addresses the Theory of Operation behind Landmarks shortly.

PLEASE keep your comments to specific guidelines and leave the more general discussion (i.e. should landmarks snap to roads) for a later discussion.
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Re: [USA] Landmark Guidelines - Request for Comments

Postby AndyPoms » Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:51 am

Alright, it's been a week and the conversation has departed significantly from
AndyPoms wrote:PLEASE keep your comments to specific guidelines and leave the more general discussion (i.e. should landmarks snap to roads) for a later discussion.

So, I'm going to lock this up for now. It's going to take me a few days to sort through the posts here (I've kept my eye on things, but have had some stuff going on that I'm dealing with) and look at any potential changes that need to be made and talk them over with some people, and then hopefully we have the guidelines.



vectorspace wrote:I thought another operational model of Waze was to let every Wazer edit the map. That massive number of editors will never read your policy not to mention the Wiki, and if we're lucky, maybe they will watch the cool training videos.

So... until the policy the Champs are considering is integrated into the operational editing of every user, then this makes little difference at all.
Part of your job as an AM/CM is to
http://www.waze.com/wiki/index.php/Area_Manager wrote: Act as a mentor to other editors, offering advice in both the forums and when you see improper edits on the map.
That means you should be talking with new editors, pointing them to the wiki, and trying to educate them in the correct way of doing things. It is also your job to remove bad edits from the map (usually after trying to point the user to the various guidelines & trying get the user to fix it themselves).
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Re: [USA] Landmark Guidelines - Request for Comments

Postby bgodette » Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:15 pm

Even though this is locked I feel the need to comment on the argument of "if Waze didn't want X on the map why is there a type for X".

All of the road Types and landmark Types exist because they are the types used in the TIGER data set that Waze imported for NA. They exist because they're in the other data sets, not from any intentional desire by Waze to have those types/objects and has since gone through at least one Type reduction/consolidation that I know of.
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Re: [USA] Landmark Guidelines - Request for Comments

Postby CrackedLCD » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:50 pm

What's the reasoning for mapping malls, hospitals and the like to include the parking lots? Unless the landmark suppresses traffic reports and problems I don't really see the purpose, at least from an aesthetics point of view. I've found that sensible parking lot road mapping plus the outline of the mall or other major building looks better on the map instead one big blog of landmark with roads inside it.
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Re: [USA] Landmark Guidelines - Request for Comments

Postby CrackedLCD » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:55 am

daknife wrote:Insta-cares also serve the same public service as Hospitals, i.e. somewhere to go when you get hurt. As I said, this needs discussion. And Hospitals are also (at least where I live) all run by private corporations, how are we not advertising for them?


How about a compromise, and we only landmark facilities with 24 hour care? That would eliminate most of the little places, and most of the 24 hour urgent care type places tend to be a little more comprehensive in what they offer versus every run of the mill doc-in-the-box.
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Re: [USA] Landmark Guidelines - Request for Comments

Postby CrackedLCD » Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:06 am

pjlasl wrote:Sure thing. From what I have seen, those parking lot roads/private roads get abused in commercial areas quite a bit...you should not have roads going around McDonalds ...


Well yes, you should, if it serves to suppress problem reports. This will be especially important if Waze globally implements the landmark guideline from the OP that states that we should only use the parking lot landmark for municipal & pay lots.

Before this landmarks discussion heated up and there wasn't much consensus, I did a test in my area and used the parking lot landmark to suppress automatic reports, naming the lots for some of the businesses they covered. It did suppress traffic reports but it cluttered the maps a bit. I'm going to do a bit of editing and convert some of those to parking lot roads so my area falls more in line with these guidelines. I know they're not set in stone yet but this is a good time to get my area into shape.
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Re: [USA] Landmark Guidelines - Request for Comments

Postby CrackedLCD » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:56 am

I certainly didn't mean to spread misinformation and consider myself schooled on this now. If the wiki is wrong, though, it's possibly been wrong for as long as I've been a member (about 5 months) because that's how it was when I read through after I first got editing privileges.

It's a little OT but I'm wary of using 4sq for place data info. I'm a superuser over there and cleanup is an ongoing thing since people can literally create any venue anywhere, with any venue type they choose. It explains why the |P| icons appear in so many random places. Oh well, something else for me to work on. ;)
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Re: [USA] Landmark Guidelines - Request for Comments

Postby CrackedLCD » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:31 am

dmiller1984 wrote:I agree that hospitals with 24-hour care is a good rule for mapping hospitals. It goes along with the reason for mapping police and fire departments in that it is a place you can get help if you're in trouble.

2.10 Camp site / RV Park - Not Mapped. Handled by POI Search.


I mentioned this in the original thread, but I think it got overlooked in the scope of a larger discussion. What about mapping camp sites like we do beaches by marking them as parks? Camp sites are many times part of a park anyway and you can't always rely on a POI search to find a campsite.


I assume you're referring to free public camping sites, or sites within a state park with a small fee? I could see doing that, but commercial operations would fall under the 'no business landmarks' rule, I reckon.
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