Unpaved as a checkbox instead of road type?

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Unpaved as a checkbox instead of road type?

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:31 pm

Take a read here: viewtopic.php?p=385433#p385433

What is brought up is a good point and one I think we should carefully consider.

There can be all sorts of "unpaved" roadways from city streets, primary streets and highways. "Unpaved" is more of a surface treatment. Whereas "4x4/Offroad" is more of a type of roadway. I think the suggestion has a lot of merit. The problem is, is that it will likely take Waze more time to implement a new checkbox and possibly add app/routing features to allow us to route around such areas.
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Re: Unpaved as a checkbox instead of road type?

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:24 pm

Riamus wrote:I have to get over there and check it out. A state highway on the sand? Sounds fun. :D

And some state highways utilize ferries.
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Re: Unpaved as a checkbox instead of road type?

Postby AlanOfTheBerg » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:17 pm

dan_in_TX wrote:Just to keep the discussion alive, TXDOT announced that they're going to un-pave some roads in South Texas.

I feel like they could save some money and let usage, lack of maintenance and mother nature do the "changing to gravel" part ... :)
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Re: Unpaved as a checkbox instead of road type?

Postby AndyPoms » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:14 am

daknife wrote:
PhantomSoul wrote:IMHO, a road being unpaved, no matter what its pack quality, automatically disqualifies it from being any kind of highway, as well as a primary street, regardless of what kind of marker it may have, or whether there are any other roads in the area. Main roads are paved, regardless of who maintains them. Period.


Speaketh the editor from New Jersey. No disrespect, and your opinion is as valid as anyone else's but it's funny how those from areas with far less "real" rough terrain are usually those making such statements. There are dirt/gravel roads in the midwest and west that are official US Hwy's and/or State Hwy's. They are usually quite well maintained but with low traffic flow and you can do 50-60 on them with no problem at all, you just don't follow bumper to bumper at full speed like so many do on an interstate at rush hour, you give the guy in front of you space for the gravel (and the dust) to settle down so it doesn't take out your windows or headlights. An unpaved road can most certainly be called a Hwy and there are many that are officially highways, do we go counter what the official designations are?

And as others have noted, this is not a purely US discussion as the editor options are the same worldwide.

Here in the North East PhantomSoul is certain correct - anything unpaved has almost no chance of being anything higher than a street, but in other parts of the country, daknife is correct - dirt/gravel roads can be much more common and have much higher speed limits/capacity.
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Re: Unpaved as a checkbox instead of road type?

Postby AnotherHiggins » Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:39 pm

I've had two URs and a few MPs recently about NC-12 north of Corolla. NC-12 is a North Carolina state highway that runs along the coast. But at that northern-most section near the Virginia border, it is unpaved for several miles as it is actually on the beach in the sand. But it is a state highway.

I've actually been trying to decide how to list it on the map. There's a residential area for which that road is the only way in or out (except for a boat).
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Re: Unpaved as a checkbox instead of road type?

Postby AnotherHiggins » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:55 pm

Riamus wrote:I have to get over there and check it out. A state highway on the sand? Sounds fun. :D


To be clear - You'd be well advised to only drive on this section of "highway" if you have 4-wheel drive. Even then you need to deflate your tires so you don't sink in the soft sand and get stuck.... You're right - that does sound like fun!
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Re: Unpaved as a checkbox instead of road type?

Postby AnotherHiggins » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:54 pm

troyv wrote:And if the surface of the road is poor (not talking about 4x4 routes), that means that the speeds on those roads will be lower, and thus, Waze will learn to avoid those routes.


One problem with that logic: poorly-maintained gravel roads inherently have fewer drivers using them. That reduces the odds that any of those drivers have Waze running while they drive on the poorly-maintained gravel roads. That means it's entirely likely that Waze won't have any baseline speed data for the segment(s), and therefore won't know to avoid them.
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Re: Unpaved as a checkbox instead of road type?

Postby AnotherHiggins » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:54 pm

Just an aside:

Many years ago I spent a week in Sedona, AZ with my dad. We wanted to do one of the many offroad, 4x4 canyon jeep tours in one of the surrounding towns. We called ahead and went to one place on a Saturday, only to be told that they wouldn't be able to take us after all. More boyscouts showed up than expected or something.

We checked all of the other places in town, but no luck.

Finally, I told a guy that they were the last place in town, and that we'd just made the trip for nothing.

He hesitated, then said, "Well, part of the path we take might be accessible. What are you driving?"

"A Ford Taurus," I answered.

"Oh, nevermind."

"It is a rental car."

"Oh! Well then, you could probably make it a little ways up there."

He told us where their jeeps entered off the paved streets. I proceeded to (slowly) drive all the way to the point where the jeeps turned around. Then I kept going. We wound up coming down the other side of the..... mesa, I guess.... which had some beautiful high plains and farms. Man, a GPS unit sure would have been handy back then, but we managed to find our way back to civilization.

So, really, "unsuitable for normal cars" is entirely dependent on how much you care about your car.
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Re: Unpaved as a checkbox instead of road type?

Postby bart99gt » Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:27 pm

In the southern US, maintained gravel roads still exist in many places, most are now just named or numbered county roads, and some of them in my youth (1980s) were state routes!

On one of my jaunts last week, I drove on a couple of roads that were for all or part of their length, *named* (emphasis here because according to the wiki, labeling a road as dirt right now removes the name label in the app!?!), and county maintained.

So yes, I believe that is important to have a way to mark these roads in such a way that distinguishes them as being perhaps as being semi or unimproved, but does not put them into the category of a ATV/off road trail that your normal run of the mill passenger vehicle may not be able to traverse and would rightfully want to avoid driving on.
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Re: Unpaved as a checkbox instead of road type?

Postby brucebergman » Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:13 pm

Well, yeah - a "Texas Crossing" swale across the small river with 1 or 3 large buried culverts to handle the wintertime flow (and a layer of concrete over the whole thing to prevent scour) is a whole lot cheaper to build and maintain than a full bridge.

Of course, when it's been raining recently and there's a foot or more of fast flowing water above the vehicle pavement (IE you can't even see the water height telltale sign...) you'll have to go another way. If there *is* another way.
jwriddle wrote:
AlanOfTheBerg wrote:
dan_in_TX wrote:Just to keep the discussion alive, TXDOT announced that they're going to un-pave some roads in South Texas.

I feel like they could save some money and let usage, lack of maintenance and mother nature do the "changing to gravel" part ... :)


In other news -- bridges are to be torn down in place of more water...
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